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Old 10-07-2012, 06:27 PM   #2071
pavemike
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dduelin View Post
Unless you just want the noise her odds at survival are better served by spending the money on a copy of Proficient Motorcycling or Street Strategies by Hough or Ride Hard Ride Smart by Hahn if not sending her to some type of rider training. I assume NM has not changed their policy that any type of rider training is not required to operate a motorcycle.

Depending on one's brain to survive instead of one's noise is a better deal.
I appreciate the advice, and agree. She has been through the standard MSF course, the advanced rider course, the "sport bike" course offered by the DOD, and has participated at local track days. I think she has the basics down pretty well. I'm assuming that you've never been to Albuquerque . You can sit right next to a driver and they will look directly at you then merge right into your lane. This bike is small and quiet, and in my opinion the added noise during commuting hours can assist in keeping other drivers aware of your position.
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Old 10-07-2012, 07:20 PM   #2072
dduelin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pavemike View Post
I appreciate the advice, and agree. She has been through the standard MSF course, the advanced rider course, the "sport bike" course offered by the DOD, and has participated at local track days. I think she has the basics down pretty well. I'm assuming that you've never been to Albuquerque . You can sit right next to a driver and they will look directly at you then merge right into your lane. This bike is small and quiet, and in my opinion the added noise during commuting hours can assist in keeping other drivers aware of your position.
If they look at you then merge right into your lane anyway, how can a loud exhaust prevent that? If I am not mistaken, none of the training you mention has more than cursory mention of specific tactics for long term survival on a motorcycle and a pipe is not a very good one.
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Old 10-07-2012, 07:34 PM   #2073
pavemike
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dduelin View Post
If they look at you then merge right into your lane anyway, how can a loud exhaust prevent that? If I am not mistaken, none of the training you mention has more than cursory mention of specific tactics for long term survival on a motorcycle and a pipe is not a very good one.
You're right, I should buy a book that explains everything. That would be wayyy better than the "cursory long term survival tactics" from multiple hands on courses and track days. Maybe I'll just leave the silent pipe on and wrap her in highly reflective aluminum foil. Or it's probably just safer to make her sell the bike and sit at home all day cleaning the house and making sure dinner is on the table when I get home. Thanks for the input, but I'm done trying defend my choice of accessories to an Internet guru. Cheers!
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Old 10-07-2012, 07:38 PM   #2074
LuciferMutt
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FWIW I live in ABQ too. A pipe is not going to help your odds one bit. If anything it's going to make her slightly more complacent and worsen the risk because she may start assuming people know she's there from the noise.

My VFR is not a particulary quiet machine with the Staintune on it and I still experience near merge events quite regularly. Think about how quiet the interiors are on most modern cars -- engineers are doing everything they can to ELIMINATE outside noise....why? BECAUSE IT IS ANNOYING! That includes farting exhausts on loud motorcycles, even 250cc ones!

Get the pipe if it sounds cool, but don't think for a minute it's helping safety.
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Old 10-07-2012, 07:59 PM   #2075
dduelin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pavemike View Post
You're right, I should buy a book that explains everything. That would be wayyy better than the "cursory long term survival tactics" from multiple hands on courses and track days. Maybe I'll just leave the silent pipe on and wrap her in highly reflective aluminum foil. Or it's probably just safer to make her sell the bike and sit at home all day cleaning the house and making sure dinner is on the table when I get home. Thanks for the input, but I'm done trying defend my choice of accessories to an Internet guru. Cheers!
I am sorry, I came across the wrong way. Buy the pipe - that's a fine accessory.

Shifting, braking, line selection, and clipping apexes have little to do with long term street survival. The courses you mention are a few hours of range or track work - I know, I have taken the same or similar ones. Learning survival strategies and tactics to implement them into daily use are not something you are going to learn outside of resources you can refer to time and time again, like books or videos. We can always learn more about this sport, myself included.
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Old 10-07-2012, 09:16 PM   #2076
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pavemike View Post
... and in my opinion the added noise during commuting hours can assist in keeping other drivers aware of your position.
And your opinion is spectacularly wrong -- and has been proved wrong by those who go out and field-test such things. But, have at it. The illusion of being safe is worth it to those not interested in actually being safe.
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Old 10-07-2012, 10:19 PM   #2077
pavemike
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DiabloADV View Post
The illusion of being safe is worth it to those not interested in actually being safe.
What's this mean? Are you saying that because I want my wife to be heard for a safety point of view (in my opinion as unpopular as it is on a 250cc thread), I'm unsafe? I think I've done quite a bit more for my wife training wise than many of us had in our first couple years of riding. As someone that's logged 50k+ miles on 2 wheels without an accident or ticket, how do you figure I'm not actually interested in being safe? I find it quite amusing that a couple people have taken such offense to one persons perception of safety. It's almost like I said that I'm going to loosen up her axle bolt because a loose wheel corners better. Lighten up fella and go for a ride.

This forum used to be a fun place to read and learn, unlike the childish TT forum. But lately this has gone to the other extreme of people who sit behind their computers passing judgement because they feel entitled. By the way, remember sitting in the back of a pickup or bouncing around in the car without your seatbelt growing up? Or playing in a playground that had rocks instead of fancy rubber chips? We survived. makes this whole safety thing sound pretty silly.

I say all this in good spirit, and I'm sorry if I ruffle feathers. I just get a kick out of grown men bickering about safety stuff on a bike that can barely get out of its own way. . I'm off to bed to dream up ways to fit screaming eagle straight pipes on the WeeBR...
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Old 10-07-2012, 10:34 PM   #2078
scooterspirit
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The bike is so quiet that people walking, bicycles, dogs and such are taken by surprised sometimes and a loud pipe would give them a chance to hear you coming.
When I'm at a light, next to a Harley, and they give it the gas, I can't even tell my bike is running anymore. If I had a pipe, then I'd be bouncing it off the rev limit, the 250 will cut through the Harley rumble because it's nasty sound.
The pipe is good for pissing people off, hehehe. Your wife is way too nice for that, you would have to get her some leathers, or Goth or Punk or purple mohawk for her helmet.
A coon tail on a tall mast, that will get you noticed!
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Old 10-07-2012, 10:43 PM   #2079
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Originally Posted by pavemike View Post
What's this mean?
It means...you're being dishonest. You want a loud pipe, then get a loud pipe. Don't make up fake excuses to justify yourself. You (and/or your wife) are clearly the single most safety-conscious and skilled rider(s) in the history of the universe. A loud pipe would add nothing to your glowing awesomeness of motorcycle riding perfection.

Except to feed your ego. And that's cool. So go for it.
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Old 10-07-2012, 11:04 PM   #2080
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Originally Posted by scooterspirit View Post
The bike is so quiet that people walking, bicycles, dogs and such are taken by surprised sometimes and a loud pipe would give them a chance to hear you coming.
When I'm at a light, next to a Harley, and they give it the gas, I can't even tell my bike is running anymore. If I had a pipe, then I'd be bouncing it off the rev limit, the 250 will cut through the Harley rumble because it's nasty sound.
The pipe is good for pissing people off, hehehe. Your wife is way too nice for that, you would have to get her some leathers, or Goth or Punk or purple mohawk for her helmet.
A coon tail on a tall mast, that will get you noticed!
the only thing a loud exhaust does is make the deer or cow stare at you even longer before it bolts into the road
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Old 10-08-2012, 11:02 AM   #2081
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My understanding of the neuro-science (as of about 5 years ago) is that the RAS at the back of our brains is responsible for screening the 40,000+ variables per minute our brains "see" in our environment down to something that our conscious minds can handle and make decisions about.

When it comes to driving, we are all trained a little bit differently. Most "I didn't see you" car-on-motorcycle accidents happen because the driver of the car has been "trained" to only see other cars and big trucks as threats worthy of triggering action. Our eyes are our dominant sense, and the "screening" dictates most of our reactions.

When it comes to noise, the training our brains get is even more varied. Urban vs. rural, high vs. low background noise, etc. My buddy in the Air Force learned to sleep in his barracks under the take-off path at the end of an AFB runway, but it took time to train himself to ignore the noise.

When audible car alarms first came out, all of us paid attention when they went off. Since most were "false" alarms, now we tend to ingore them and in some cases, not hear them.

Some exhaust sounds are routinely ignored. Like some small engines, and higher-pitched exhausts (even on high-revving sport bikes). Some sounds aren't routinely ignored. Like an 18 wheeler starting to move. Like a loud Harley revving next to you. Like racking a round into the chamber of a 12-guage pump-action shotgun.

The studies I've read say that when it comes to noise, our "ignore" vs. "take action" threshold varies tremendously based on our personal experiences. Taking a "loud noise" precaution to try to break through a car driver's RAS screening to get his/her attention may or may not work. But because we all screen noises differently (and because some cars screen outside noised much better than others), it may be worth something. It just can't be the only thing.

Bright colors help, but drivers still don't see us. Loud noises MAY help, but drivers still don't hear us. Riding a motorcycle is inherently dangerous, and we all mitigate that danger in different ways. Defensive riding, constant awareness, good skills, practiced strategies for escape routes all play their part. Ultimately, we are each responsible for our own choices. Just make sure that you are looking and listening for the other guy, too.
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Old 10-08-2012, 11:20 AM   #2082
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Did a nice little loop this weekend with a large riding group up here in the Bay area. The little CBR never missed a beat and really excels in the tight stuff.







Not the best shot, but I did not care for all the plastics and removed the lower cowling along with a portion of the fairing without noticing any real differences. Heated grips, larger shield and custom seat are in the works. After riding an F800S for several years, I can honestly say that this bike can handle almost any type of riding you throw at it. While it's not the most enjoyable machine on extended jolts of the freeway, I really can't complain as it handles just below 80mph on a daily basis.

Asphalt Assault screwed with this post 10-08-2012 at 11:44 AM
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Old 10-08-2012, 09:51 PM   #2083
DiabloADV
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Not the best shot, but ....
Your pic doesn't show...I'd like to see what it looks like with the lowers removed. Thinking of the semi-faired look myself...can you re-post.
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Old 10-09-2012, 11:12 AM   #2084
Turtlebone
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Originally Posted by The_Mike View Post
This happens to me on all my bikes. When you're sitting at a light and can't get it into first with the clutch pulled in, simply release the clutch in neutral for about a second. Then pull it back in and you'll be able to slip it right in to first.

I had a few panicky moments on my CB when I first started riding before I figured this out. But no more worries - it works every time.
Thanks guys for all the responses. After reading up on here and cbr250.net, I was able to have a much more enjoyable experience on my next ride. MUCH better :)
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Old 10-09-2012, 06:51 PM   #2085
sendler
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For the people that are having trouble passing 80 mph cars, a big bore kit, fuel controller and a pipe could give an extra 30% more power and still beat every other vehicle on the highway on fuel consumption.
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http://www.ebay.com/itm/320994646285...84.m1438.l2649
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