ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Road warriors
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 11-01-2010, 05:33 PM   #196
markjenn
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2003
Location: Swellvue, WA
Oddometer: 10,311
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snapper
Actually I think aero and weight are the determining factors in Terrytori's comment. Seems that HP & Torque between the WR250X and Ninja 250R are just about close as you can get. However, the WRX is about 60 lbs lighter than the Ninja explaining how it can out run the Ninja uphill, at slower speeds. Flat and downhill, where aerodynamics count more than weight, makes all the difference on top speed. I know the WRX is not geared too low for top speed.... it can not hit redline in 6th - it simply runs out of steam (around upper 80s) against the windforce. Over 60mph on the WRX and you better start watching your rearview mirrors for minivans

If I recall correctly, these stats are from the same Cycleworld article - biggest difference being weight and top speed:

WR250X

Ninja 250R
The bikes are definitely close in a lot of areas, but if I'm on road trip and want to have the fastest bike, I'll take the Ninja everytime, in any situation. I think there is some cherry-picking of data going on. For example, I've seen dyno reports for the WR250R down in the 21 range.

- Mark
markjenn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2010, 06:34 AM   #197
DesmoDog
Desmo's my dog
 
DesmoDog's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2009
Location: Michigan, USA
Oddometer: 600
Quote:
Originally Posted by Navin
Am I gonna be the first guy to ask if there will be a 350 BB kit? You guys are slipping!!! Mayb Honda left enough "meat" to get 400cc in there with a stroke?

I'll get Thumperracing on the phone...
I like how you think...
DesmoDog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2010, 06:57 AM   #198
Blizzard Beast
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Blizzard Beast's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2010
Location: Shimla,India
Oddometer: 488
Honda will be bringing this bike to India as well.In fact it will be manufactured here itself.That will eliminate the exorbitant import duties and taxes we have to pay for CBUs.Speculation is that it will be priced at Rs 1.5 lakh(USD 3400) for the non-ABS version.
Blizzard Beast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2010, 07:43 AM   #199
Paulvt1 OP
Beastly Adventurer
 
Paulvt1's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: Wolverhampton. England.
Oddometer: 3,479
Smart move by Honda. These bikes (CBR250 / 125) are so important to the future of motorcycling in general. Get people interested young, keep the costs down and breed a new generation of enthusiasts.
Paulvt1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2010, 08:13 AM   #200
frog13
Beastly Adventurer
 
frog13's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2007
Location: SW Ohio
Oddometer: 1,264
Agreed! Paul T.!!!
frog13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2010, 12:10 PM   #201
Birdmove
Beastly Adventurer
 
Birdmove's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Location: Keaau, Hawaii
Oddometer: 1,589
This new Honda is certainly going to have stiff competition in the little Ninja. I would consider buying the new Honda for myself, and I'm a long way from a beginner.I just bturned 57 and began riding at 8 years old asnd have never been without motorcycles since.A 250 single would do most of my current riding with no problem.And great gas mileage, as a 250 thumper would certainl;y get, is going to be an important attraction, as it was when gas was approaching $5.00 a gallon in the US a few years ago, and I was commuting and running errands on a Yamaha XT225 getting around 90 mpg.

jon
__________________
Jon in Keaau, Hi. USA
2008 SYM HD200 (wife's ride)
2009 Kymco People 150 and coming soon, another dual sport mc
Birdmove is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2010, 12:41 PM   #202
EdM
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jul 2006
Location: Dover, DE
Oddometer: 299
I agree with Birdmove. As I mentioned in an earlier post I'm 67 and a returning rider. I feel a 250 would handle most of my riding needs quite easily and the one area it may struggle a bit - high speed interstate riding - is something I would rarely need to do.

Speculating on price: no doubt most will compare the CBR with the Ninja but I'm also considering the Suzuki TU250 - another fuel injected single. The TU has a MSRP of $4k (as does the Ninja). The Honda has disc brakes front and rear (putting aside the ABS) whereas the TU has a drum rear. The TU does not have a tachometer and I believe the CBR does (from watching the video) and of course the CBR has bodywork. For ME the rear drum and lack of tach are not "deal breakers" given my riding style but they do appeal to many.

I admit to still getting sticker shock whenever I price a new car/truck/motorcycle but I tend to think if Honda prices it around $4,500 to $4,750 that would seem reasonable - perhaps to $5k if they feel "Honda" on the tank adds value. I'm guessing ABS would add $500.

Not a super bargain but I think it would stay on the radar screen for those seeking a smaller street bike. If it gets close to WR territory of $6.5k then I doubt we'll see a 2012 version.

Ned
EdM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2010, 03:33 PM   #203
Ginger Beard
I have no soul
 
Ginger Beard's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2008
Location: Sunny Northern Cuba (aka: South Florida)
Oddometer: 6,211
Quote:
Originally Posted by vander
The EU is going to legislate on the ABS for ALL bikes (=100%). A new homologation law is being discussed right now and obligatory ABS and 100hp limit seems like a real possibility.
Wow that sucks.
__________________
"I have great faith in fools; self-confidence my friends call it." ~Edgar Allen Poe~
My Scramster Build

3 weeks solo: Overland Expo East ,Barber Vintage Fest and beyond
Ginger Beard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2010, 05:30 PM   #204
Birdmove
Beastly Adventurer
 
Birdmove's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Location: Keaau, Hawaii
Oddometer: 1,589
The Suzuki TU250 is, from all accounts, just a great small thumper with fuel injection. The Suzuki GZ250, still running a carb, may be the best buy since the recent $1000.00 price reduction.I would have to replace the ridiculous (to me) handlebards on the GZ with flatter ones.But, talk about a simple to maintain smaller street thumper.

Though I know fuel injection is the way all motorcycles will be soon I still prefer a carb. The Harley-Davidson techs I deal with at the dealer I work at tell me FI is a great thing and that they wouldn't hesitate to buy an FI bike. But the next thing I see is a bike in for a bad fuel pump, or pressure regulator, or bad injectors, etc,etc. I also like having a resrve that I can count on, rather than a notoriously innacurrate fuel gauge ort low fuel warning light. I also hate all the crap they have to stuff up inside the fuel tank on an FI motorcycle.That's why I bought an older 2006 XL883 with carb, rather than a newer FI model.The FI models do run well usually, and certainly run better on a cold start.

These are just my opinions as an old geezer/rider.Most won't agree.

Jon
__________________
Jon in Keaau, Hi. USA
2008 SYM HD200 (wife's ride)
2009 Kymco People 150 and coming soon, another dual sport mc
Birdmove is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2010, 07:27 PM   #205
frog13
Beastly Adventurer
 
frog13's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2007
Location: SW Ohio
Oddometer: 1,264
I believe that fuel costs will skyrocket again....unfortunately!....I think the current crop of six speed 250's will do communiting duty quite well(notice I did not say do 0-60 in 3 seconds or quarter miles in the 9's etc).Folks lose track of motorcycling vs jet bikes etc....slow down and enjoy the show! and great gas mileage.
frog13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2010, 08:00 PM   #206
markjenn
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2003
Location: Swellvue, WA
Oddometer: 10,311
Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdmove
But the next thing I see is a bike in for a bad fuel pump, or pressure regulator, or bad injectors, etc,etc. I also like having a resrve that I can count on, rather than a notoriously innacurrate fuel gauge ort low fuel warning light.
Certainly carbs have old-fashioned appeal to the home mechanic and that's fine. But as to your specific criticisms....

I'd bet that for every FI bike with a bad fuel pump, regulator, or injector, there are ten that have gummed-up, leaking, or broken carbs. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that FI is generally much more reliable and trouble-free.

On the reserve issue, for most bikes, the low fuel light relies on exactly the same principle as a reserve standpipe - once the fuel drops below a certain level, it exposes a thermistor which lights up a light. That's not really much different than the fuel level dropping below a standpipe and just as accurate. So I don't see any reliability advantage here other than a light warning might be easier to miss. And while motorcycle fuel gages tend to be somewhat non-linear, they generally are consistent so once you get a feel for how they are calibrated, it is nice to have some info on fuel state other than simply above or below a fixed level. And almost all bikes with fuel gages also have warning lights, so the gage is a bonus, not a takeaway.

And to my mind, relying on a vehicle to sputter to a stop as a way to tell how much gas it has is borderline dangerous - we've got cars being recalled today for minor problems that might cause them to lose power as a safety issue, so the idea that loss of power is a good way to tell you are low on gas seems crazy to me.

The thing that really sells me on FI is simply that FI bikes are MUCH more resistant to the carb-gumming problem that all carb'ed bikes have when they aren't driven for a while. I've cleaned carbs tens of times and I don't want to do it every again if I can avoid it. And a FI bike runs so much better at altitude.

FI and a low-fuel warning light are huge pluses for the CBR250R in my book.

- Mark

markjenn screwed with this post 11-02-2010 at 08:05 PM
markjenn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2010, 08:41 PM   #207
Brian-M
Melting in GA
 
Joined: Jun 2008
Location: Warm Springs, GA
Oddometer: 957
Quote:
Originally Posted by markjenn

And a FI bike runs so much better at altitude.

- Mark
Only on a closed-loop FI system. I don't follow new bikes much, but I doubt there are ANY under $15k with a closed loop FI system.

All open-loop FI systems have the EXACT same issues with elevation that carbs do, except you have to spend hundreds of dollars to "fix" it instead of ~$20.
Brian-M is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2010, 09:03 PM   #208
markjenn
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2003
Location: Swellvue, WA
Oddometer: 10,311
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian-M
Only on a closed-loop FI system. I don't follow new bikes much, but I doubt there are ANY under $15k with a closed loop FI system.
Given emissions regs, I'd be surprised if any streetbike FI system isn't closed loop. The Suzuki TU250 is for example. And the KTM 690's. Do you have an example of a current certified streetbike with an open-loop system?

- Mark
markjenn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2010, 10:04 PM   #209
Gryphon12
Beastly Adventurer
 
Gryphon12's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2006
Location: Carnation, WA USA
Oddometer: 1,261
Closed Loop FI

If by Open and Closed Loop we mean without and with the functionality of a Lambda Sensor, it is my understanding that all FI systems manufactured in Europe and Japan since the 2006 MY are in fact closed loop to meet EU emissions requirements. I believe that all 2006 and later models have lambda sensors and that they all compensate well for altitude changes.

Whether an Open Loop FI system behaves like a carburator with respect to altitude changes depends upon the sophistication of the system. If an Open Loop system functions with the equivalent of a MAP sensor, it should automatically respond to altitude changes moderately well. If it also has a BAP sensor, which is calibrated to a local reference barometric pressure and constantly compares with the manifold pressure (MAP), then smooth automated changes with altitude is assured. Closed Loop systems add lambda sensors and go one or two steps further.

The newer (closed loop) systems are typically more difficult to tune with additional sensors to coordinate, and seem to have more frequent surging issues, especially at part throttle and load (TPS & MAP feedback). They also get better fuel economy (when we don't tune around it) and lower emissions (same caveat). They get better every year, although motorcycle systems still aren't as sophisticated as those on cars.
__________________
1990 Honda NT-650 Hawk-GT

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world;
indeed, it's the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead
Gryphon12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2010, 06:54 AM   #210
tbirdsp
REMF
 
tbirdsp's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2002
Location: Nebraska
Oddometer: 8,698
Quote:
Originally Posted by markjenn
Given emissions regs, I'd be surprised if any streetbike FI system isn't closed loop. The Suzuki TU250 is for example. And the KTM 690's. Do you have an example of a current certified streetbike with an open-loop system?

- Mark
From what I've read, the FI on my Bonnevillle is closed loop only at very small throttle openings, then switches to open loop
__________________
Mike S.
'09 Bonneville Black, '05 KLR650, '07 Yam Majesty
AMA MSTA
http://www.reddeliciousband.com
tbirdsp is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 05:59 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014