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Old 10-27-2010, 12:51 PM   #31
Grainbelt
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Really wish Yamaha would enter the fray, they have a huge gap under the FZ6R. WR250X motor in a tiny chassis would be hysterical fun.
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Old 10-27-2010, 02:28 PM   #32
Florida Lime
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No way anyone can complain about a too-tall seat height on this one !


From the spec sheet:

Seat Height:95mm (3.74 inches)


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Old 10-27-2010, 02:37 PM   #33
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Thanks for your view, Bluesman. I happen to agree with Mud390 that the torque of the 250RR makes riding varied terrain difficult. I can also see it being much more useful in Europe than in the US, confirming your view that the market matters.

My favorite smaller Hondas include the NC-29 (CBR400RR) and the NC-35 (RVF400R), both with gear driven cams and neither available in the US (outside of the 1980's grey market). These 400 cc bikes have a lot more torque than the 250RR, making them better sportbikes and better around town. Without a tiered licensing system, I'm afraid we'll never see their modern conterparts in the US. [And putting a 450 twin in the Kawasaki EX-650R doesn't help - it really is too heavy, and too expensive for the performance it gives.]

Economics is the rub. There is a minimum fixed cost to produce any motorcycle. A base 250, 450, and 650 may very well all cost about the same. Higher performance engines justify higher quality suspensions and a bigger purchase price. We need economic reasons to go smaller in the US. The low cost, ease of riding and 70-90 mpg on an EX-250 is why the Ninjette sells so well. I'm really pleased to see some competition here, and I hope the economics and marketing will support the variety.
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Old 10-27-2010, 02:40 PM   #34
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Old 10-27-2010, 04:00 PM   #35
Meter Man
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gryphon12
Thanks for your view, Bluesman. I happen to agree with Mud390 that the torque of the 250RR makes riding varied terrain difficult. I can also see it being much more useful in Europe than in the US, confirming your view that the market matters.

My favorite smaller Hondas include the NC-29 (CBR400RR) and the NC-35 (RVF400R), both with gear driven cams and neither available in the US (outside of the 1980's grey market). These 400 cc bikes have a lot more torque than the 250RR, making them better sportbikes and better around town. Without a tiered licensing system, I'm afraid we'll never see their modern conterparts in the US. [And putting a 450 twin in the Kawasaki EX-650R doesn't help - it really is too heavy, and too expensive for the performance it gives.]

Economics is the rub. There is a minimum fixed cost to produce any motorcycle. A base 250, 450, and 650 may very well all cost about the same. Higher performance engines justify higher quality suspensions and a bigger purchase price. We need economic reasons to go smaller in the US. The low cost, ease of riding and 70-90 mpg on an EX-250 is why the Ninjette sells so well. I'm really pleased to see some competition here, and I hope the economics and marketing will support the variety.
I'd like to see real world stats from riders getting that kind of mpg on the ex-250, I rarely cracked 60 mpg during regular riding.
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Old 10-27-2010, 04:06 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gryphon12
Thanks for your view, Bluesman. I happen to agree with Mud390 that the torque of the 250RR makes riding varied terrain difficult. I can also see it being much more useful in Europe than in the US, confirming your view that the market matters.

My favorite smaller Hondas include the NC-29 (CBR400RR) and the NC-35 (RVF400R), both with gear driven cams and neither available in the US (outside of the 1980's grey market). These 400 cc bikes have a lot more torque than the 250RR, making them better sportbikes and better around town. Without a tiered licensing system, I'm afraid we'll never see their modern conterparts in the US. [And putting a 450 twin in the Kawasaki EX-650R doesn't help - it really is too heavy, and too expensive for the performance it gives.]

Economics is the rub. There is a minimum fixed cost to produce any motorcycle. A base 250, 450, and 650 may very well all cost about the same. Higher performance engines justify higher quality suspensions and a bigger purchase price. We need economic reasons to go smaller in the US. The low cost, ease of riding and 70-90 mpg on an EX-250 is why the Ninjette sells so well. I'm really pleased to see some competition here, and I hope the economics and marketing will support the variety.
I fully see your point and agree. This is actually why I am surprised Honda took trouble creating this bike now when they already for many many years have beautiful, well handling and super-flexy engine VTR250 - all they had to do is to sell it in US, damn it! That motor is gem, I rode it for 16000 km in 1997-1999 and many years later still remember that engine. Nobody believed it was 250 and it was easily tunable to almost 40 rwbhp by switching parts of engine or just whole motor with older VT250FZ I think...can't recall exact subtype.
I generally hate all this "market segmentation" method as it had back-draft effect. If you do not "teach" market to accept different type of products market won't accept it. European bike makers literally shaped their market but big-4 mostly drifting along. Strange.
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Old 10-27-2010, 04:23 PM   #37
mud390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meter Man
I'd like to see real world stats from riders getting that kind of mpg on the ex-250, I rarely cracked 60 mpg during regular riding.
Not a ex-250, but my Bandit 250 (again, inline 4) average about 35mpg in Tokyo Traffic over the last 3000 or so miles. The worst was 30mpg, the best 45mpg. The harder I ride the bike the better the fuel economy. 12000 rpm (of 17000), top gear on the highway got me the best fuel mileage to date.

Kris
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Old 10-27-2010, 04:26 PM   #38
LuciferMutt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meter Man
I'd like to see real world stats from riders getting that kind of mpg on the ex-250, I rarely cracked 60 mpg during regular riding.
I get 70 on mine if I absolutely baby it. Normal riding with some spirited twisties yields about 55-60 for me. Nobody is going to get 90 MPG unless they pull half the engine out.
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Old 10-27-2010, 04:27 PM   #39
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Excellent Job Honda! Whereas a 250 will rarely appeal to a man-sized man or someone who doesn't live in or near a metropolitan area, there's a hell of a lot of un-manly sized women and/or smaller dudes out there who this bike will definitely appeal to. A bit more tasteful and less adolescent than the Ninjette (lighter, too!) and way cooler than any other bike that's not a supersport.

Additionally, a 250 makes a great city bike--one could save enough per month on parking and parking tickets in SF or NY to be able to afford a sub $5k bike.
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Old 10-27-2010, 04:29 PM   #40
Chiasmus
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Seat height is 30.7", btw.
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Old 10-27-2010, 04:30 PM   #41
LuciferMutt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiasmus
... be able to afford a sub $5k bike.
This is going to be the big problem. It is not going to be sub $5k. The reason the Ninja 250 still has carburetors is because FI would have pushed it over their price point.

The CBR has FI and available ABS. With both it's going to ring up at close to $7k. Without the ABS we'll be lucky to see $6k even.
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Old 10-27-2010, 04:43 PM   #42
Meter Man
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevilNinjaDog
This is going to be the big problem. It is not going to be sub $5k. The reason the Ninja 250 still has carburetors is because FI would have pushed it over their price point.

The CBR has FI and available ABS. With both it's going to ring up at close to $7k. Without the ABS we'll be lucky to see $6k even.
I don't think it will be that high.

I am guessing $4,799 or there about. In reading press on the new design of the Ninja 250, they indicated that FI would push it into the $4k plus area, not the $6k area, and this appears to be a world bike, so ABS/FI tech will be spread over a lot of stock.
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Old 10-27-2010, 04:47 PM   #43
LuciferMutt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meter Man
I don't think it will be that high.
That's what people said about the VFR1200 too. If this were any other company than Honda (or BMW) I would hold my breath and wait.
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Old 10-27-2010, 04:53 PM   #44
Delta88
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Motorcycle Daily is guessing $4500 or a little more for the non-ABS and ~$500 more for ABS. I agree with the $4799 mentioned earlier and ~$700 more for ABS.
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Old 10-27-2010, 05:36 PM   #45
CheesyRider
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Honda's MSRP on the ancient Rebel 250 is $3999. There is no way this bike is going to have an MSRP less than $5500. I believe Honda has another flop on it's hands. There aren't many entry level buyers who will be willing to shell out the extra money when the Ninja 250 is available.
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