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Old 12-26-2010, 07:28 AM   #586
Navin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gelandestrasse View Post
RS125's aren't exactly flying out of showrooms at $5,499.
That was an answer to this?

"Which bike was it, in the premium sportsbike catagory of 250-400cc, that was released in the USA in the last 25 years that was a sales flop?"

Note the 125 isn't within those rather wide and necessary parameters to be minimally legal on most highways, 125cc is not 250cc.

There have been exactly ZERO.

OK, as for derailing the thread, check the first page, post #6 IIRC. Get back to the CBR250 specific discussion, but what can be said that hasn't already till someone riders one?

My prediction, since my dealer already has a leftover EX250 sitting collecting dust? The split sales of EX250/CBR250 will do little for either company. Hope I'm wrong and somehow sales sucess convinces them to bring what I'd like to see but more likely it would just move Suzi & Yamaha to build another $3999 clone.
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Old 12-26-2010, 08:23 AM   #587
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Originally Posted by Shalev View Post
Let's say the CBR250 sells well and takes a big enough piece of Kawasaki's 250 pie. How might Kawasaki respond? Might they bring us the FI version of the 250R?

If I had it to do over again, with the CBR250 as a choice, I might not have gone with the Kawasaki. I dig my bike but in my experience the carbs have been a bit of an annoyance, and ABS at the same price point would probably get me an insurance discount as a bonus. Any $$ saved in this world right now is a big plus.

I hope the CBR250 and the Canadian Ninja 400 do well.
Id say that now with the cbr and FI, kawasaki really has no choice than to bring the FI ninja to the U.S. Market. I dont think they were planning on bringing it already.. Its only been what 3 years? Maybe in 2012 the kawasaki will have FI and hopefully ABS. If it has those 2, which one would you choose? Id go for the ninja 250 every time.
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Old 12-26-2010, 08:35 AM   #588
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From all I've heard, the EX500 is selling like crazy, so if a dealer has one getting dusty, I suspect something is wrong with the dealer. ?

Right off the bat, I'm drawn to the CBR250 because it seems to have less body work than the little Kaw.
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Old 12-26-2010, 08:46 AM   #589
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EX250 Ernie though they have a EX500 too iirc, a dead model now anyway. Most guys I know who recommend a EX250 steer buyers towards a used one. At or under $3000 with a few hundred miles, easy to see how new ones could sit around. There is one near me asking $2k, has 5k miles. Why buy new?

And I will correct myself, the FZR400 was released in the USA, though not many were seen on the streets, most went to track riders. Wonderfully handling bike, screaming engine. Was it a failure? I don't think so. I'm surprised I didn't think of it earlier in fact, its a legend. That age, the late 80s, were tough for every motorcycle but I have little doubt a updated version, even on a order only basis like the Tenere, would be welcomed today and it was oddly enough, $3999 in 1988.

Navin screwed with this post 12-26-2010 at 08:58 AM
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Old 12-26-2010, 09:04 AM   #590
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Navin View Post
That was an answer to this?

"Which bike was it, in the premium sportsbike catagory of 250-400cc, that was released in the USA in the last 25 years that was a sales flop?"

Note the 125 isn't within those rather wide and necessary parameters to be minimally legal on most highways, 125cc is not 250cc.

There have been exactly ZERO.

OK, as for derailing the thread, check the first page, post #6 IIRC. Get back to the CBR250 specific discussion, but what can be said that hasn't already till someone riders one?

My prediction, since my dealer already has a leftover EX250 sitting collecting dust? The split sales of EX250/CBR250 will do little for either company. Hope I'm wrong and somehow sales sucess convinces them to bring what I'd like to see but more likely it would just move Suzi & Yamaha to build another $3999 clone.
The Ninja 250 is Kawasaki's best selling model. Small bikes that are stratospherically priced, like the RS125, which is highway legal, don't sell.
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Old 12-26-2010, 09:11 AM   #591
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There is a 250cc MINIMUM displacement on many highways, making the wonderful RS125 illegal to ride there. Its also NOT a 250-400cc bike, and a 2t on top of it. Now, you point me to a 4t or 2t minimum 250cc street legal bike released in the USA since the RZ350 and show me it was a sales flop (besides the wonderful FZR that was introduced at one of the darkest sales points of motorcycles and waaaaaay overpriced) and you got sumthin!

Do I need to make the only valid agruments against myself Big G?
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Old 12-26-2010, 10:07 AM   #592
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Navin View Post
And I will correct myself, the FZR400 was released in the USA, though not many were seen on the streets, most went to track riders. Wonderfully handling bike, screaming engine. Was it a failure? I don't think so. I'm surprised I didn't think of it earlier in fact, its a legend. That age, the late 80s, were tough for every motorcycle but I have little doubt a updated version, even on a order only basis like the Tenere, would be welcomed today and it was oddly enough, $3999 in 1988.
Which in today's dollars, according to the US Bureau of Labor Statistics is $7,396.39.

You are indeed making the best case against your argument.
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Old 12-26-2010, 10:17 AM   #593
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And a 2011 ZX6r is $10,699. You just made my case for me. They would sell!!! A 400cc I4 sportsbike at $7396.39 would be a bargain ESPECIALLY IN A SLOT THAT HAS SEEN NOT ONE SINGLE MODEL SINCE 1990!!! I wonder which is bigger & more profitable? Half the EX250 buyers for next year or OWNING a slot all to yourself?
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Old 12-26-2010, 11:21 AM   #594
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Navin View Post
There is a 250cc MINIMUM displacement on many highways, making the wonderful RS125 illegal to ride there. Its also NOT a 250-400cc bike, and a 2t on top of it. Now, you point me to a 4t or 2t minimum 250cc street legal bike released in the USA since the RZ350 and show me it was a sales flop (besides the wonderful FZR that was introduced at one of the darkest sales points of motorcycles and waaaaaay overpriced) and you got sumthin!

Do I need to make the only valid agruments against myself Big G?
AFAIK only California has a 150cc minimum. I only care about the highways in my state and those around me and they're all good. I'm not going to slab it 2,386 miles cross country on a 125, or a 250 for that matter just to get to a state where I can't ride a 125 on the freeway.

The market has spoken definitively: "expensive small displacement bikes are not going to sell well." That's why they've all disappeared.
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Old 12-26-2010, 11:38 AM   #595
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The market has spoken definitively in 1990, a fooked up time for any motorcycle being marketed. This was an era when bikes from the early half of the decade were still in crates at warehouses. The only way the market could speak today was if there was an option, which there clearly hasn't been for 21 years. One single, stunning example. Shame as it was lauded as the best handling bike of the day, ask Kenny Roberts Jr.

I can and did list a variety of bikes in the beginners/cheap/low displacement catagory. Its choking full of em. I see Honda list a CBR250 on their web page in their "supersports" catagory and expected a supersport bike.

If Kawasaki feels the need to even respond with an update on the EX250 they sure don't have to move the bar much. Euro FI and ABS? Big deal.

This % of the market has actually spoken.
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Old 12-26-2010, 12:00 PM   #596
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Originally Posted by scorch View Post
Id say that now with the cbr and FI, kawasaki really has no choice than to bring the FI ninja to the U.S. Market. I dont think they were planning on bringing it already.. Its only been what 3 years? Maybe in 2012 the kawasaki will have FI and hopefully ABS. If it has those 2, which one would you choose? Id go for the ninja 250 every time.

I haven't seen a new Ninja 250 up close, but owned the prior model.

I was less than impressed with the fit and finish of the prior generation, although it was a fine bike.

I have not seen the CBR250r up close either, but expect it to be a bit better. Who knows though.
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Old 12-27-2010, 08:37 AM   #597
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Originally Posted by gelandestrasse View Post
The Ninja 250 is Kawasaki's best selling model. Small bikes that are stratospherically priced, like the RS125, which is highway legal, don't sell.
The RS125 is a track-only 2-stroke. It's not street legal anywhere in the US.

I think Honda is betting on another crude oil price run up to $150 or more. I see that oil is ~$90 and moving higher, so it's probably a smart bet. If you'll remember, what sold the last time gasoline spiked?--it was cheap scooters and small cheap motorcycles. Honda is positioning itself for the next spike by getting some cheap small bikes in the showrooms now.

I would love to see Honda make a supermoto competitive with the WR250X. Instead they release the crf230m, which just screams cheap, but that's what's going to sell the next time gas spikes.
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Old 12-27-2010, 11:12 AM   #598
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Yet another reason for bringing the 250R to market: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SN02z...layer_embedded

I agree with the sentiments that there is a market for smaller bikes--esp. considering the fact that 600s are now past the 10K threshold and have power outputs that will scare (if not just outright kill) newbies.

I think all the 250s have missed their mark because keeping costs at the entry level mark = disproportionally heavy bikes. The Ninjette is a perfect example.

However, I think a sub 350lb, 400cc V4 or V2 with 70hp and the dimensions of a 500cc GP bike for around $7500 would sell very well--not just to newbies looking for a good beginner sport bike, but to guys like me who would happily trade mind-numbing scary hp for something that would be an absolute blast in the twisties or on the track.
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Old 12-27-2010, 11:50 AM   #599
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However, I think a sub 350lb, 400cc V4 or V2 with 70hp and the dimensions of a 500cc GP bike for around $7500 would sell very well--not just to newbies looking for a good beginner sport bike, but to guys like me who would happily trade mind-numbing scary hp for something that would be an absolute blast in the twisties or on the track.
Have ya looked at the specs for a KTM 530 EXC-R and the price tag? I think your price point in real world terms for such a multicylinder machine as you describe is way low. I guess Honda could sell a few at $7.5K, but probably would take a loss on each one. I don't think that fits the corporate plan.

I always sensed that the CB400 four and the FZR400 were experiments in the US. Their dimensions were probably dictated more by licensing laws and such in Japan than by enthusiast demand in the US. It was probably much cheaper and easier in those days to bring a bike developed for the Japan market into the US.

My personal pipedream is that the Feds would enact a law which would allow me to purchase any vehicle made in the world for my personal use with no liability to the manufacturer.
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Old 12-27-2010, 12:35 PM   #600
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I would love to see Honda make a supermoto competitive with the WR250X.
I bought a WR250X for my son (his very first bike) and logged quite a few miles on it myself - way underpowered and undersprung for my 240 lbs bodybuilding mass, but there is no denying the quality of the bike. It is a blast to ride, gets insane MPG, is relatively practical (for a supermoto, at least) - so much more involving and exciting to ride than a Ninja 250. Still, it sold very poorly because few people will pay >$6K for a 250 single, no matter what.

My son loves it - as expected.
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