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Old 12-27-2010, 12:47 PM   #601
gelandestrasse
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Originally Posted by strongbad View Post
The RS125 is a track-only 2-stroke. It's not street legal anywhere in the US.
So it is. I've seen them plated. That's got to be a hassle.
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Old 12-27-2010, 12:51 PM   #602
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Originally Posted by WetSideRider View Post
Have ya looked at the specs for a KTM 530 EXC-R and the price tag? I think your price point in real world terms for such a multicylinder machine as you describe is way low. I guess Honda could sell a few at $7.5K, but probably would take a loss on each one. I don't think that fits the corporate plan.
Using KTM is hardly a reliable way to estimate pricing for a bike from Honda. I mean, look at the CBR1000RR price compared to the KTMs RC8. It's not even close. Further complicate things by comparing a dirt bike (EXC) to a street bike and, well, the KTM is just absolutely in no way helpful in figuring out how much it would REALLY cost to for a 400 to come to market.

Look at it this way--take a 250cc bikes street price (CBR or Ninjette), bump it up 150ccs, replace the cost-conscious cheesemetal bits with more expensive lightweight components and you've got a 400cc bike that's 25-40lbs lighter and costs $2500 more. Figure that they could at least get 60hp out of it (FZR 400 did) and you've still got a bike that should appeal to a great number of people who don't want something as gutless as a 20hp 250, but who don't need a $10k rocket that'll do low 10s in the 1/4.
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Old 12-27-2010, 12:51 PM   #603
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Originally Posted by apessino View Post
I bought a WR250X for my son (his very first bike) and logged quite a few miles on it myself - way underpowered and undersprung for my 240 lbs bodybuilding mass, but there is no denying the quality of the bike. It is a blast to ride, gets insane MPG, is relatively practical (for a supermoto, at least) - so much more involving and exciting to ride than a Ninja 250. Still, it sold very poorly because few people will pay >$6K for a 250 single, no matter what.

My son loves it - as expected.
The WR250X is selling pretty good from what I've seen.
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Old 12-27-2010, 01:07 PM   #604
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Originally Posted by Clayjars View Post
The WR250X is selling pretty good from what I've seen.
It is? Talking to some Yamaha dealer friends last year they did not make it sound like it was the case, but that is the extent of my information. I stand corrected if you know better.
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Old 12-27-2010, 01:55 PM   #605
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Originally Posted by Chiasmus View Post
Using KTM is hardly a reliable way to estimate pricing for a bike from Honda. I mean, look at the CBR1000RR price compared to the KTMs RC8. It's not even close. Further complicate things by comparing a dirt bike (EXC) to a street bike and, well, the KTM is just absolutely in no way helpful in figuring out how much it would REALLY cost to for a 400 to come to market.

Look at it this way--take a 250cc bikes street price (CBR or Ninjette), bump it up 150ccs, replace the cost-conscious cheesemetal bits with more expensive lightweight components and you've got a 400cc bike that's 25-40lbs lighter and costs $2500 more. Figure that they could at least get 60hp out of it (FZR 400 did) and you've still got a bike that should appeal to a great number of people who don't want something as gutless as a 20hp 250, but who don't need a $10k rocket that'll do low 10s in the 1/4.
I get your point, however in this case the mission of the CBR250r is for beginners, commuters and the like. The goal is an adequate motorycle that will be cheap to run. It fits the need.

A 400cc inline 4 is not a beginner bike, and probably is worse than a 600 because of power characteristics and the like.

I would also like to see a CBR500R parallel twin based on the Euro commuter already built. Plenty of grunt and still be cheap to build. It would still be cheap enough to commute on but appeal to more experienced riders. Seems to me that they could sell a lot of them, as the EX500 sold enough to stay in the model range for 15 years.

I think your estimate of cost for a 400cc premium component bike is a bit low.
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Old 12-27-2010, 03:03 PM   #606
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Originally Posted by Clayjars View Post
The WR250X is selling pretty good from what I've seen.
Man, I dunno if that is true. I bought my 2009 WR250X this past June and it had been sitting at the dealer for about a year. I don't get it though... the bikes are a blast and well worth the money IMHO. I think people are under the impression they need more than a 250, but in the case of a bike like the WR250X, I think it's plenty of bike for the vast majority of riders. I used to have a KLR650, which is a huge seller for Kawasaki. Its a very versatile bike, and has a 650cc engine, which I'm sure is a big selling point. Tell you what though, my WRX puts that bike to shame. I don't miss ANYTHING about the KLR. Like I said, I don't get why these types of bikes (WR250X and WR250R) don't sell well, other than the fact that people see "250" on it and pass right by it in favor of the "bigger" bikes.
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Old 12-27-2010, 03:15 PM   #607
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Because they WR250r and x, bridge the gap between really good, like a KTM, and really cheesy, like a 230CRF, and impress some but are true to neither high spec performance or cheapo frugality.

Price up really getting a WR250r hooked up with a 350 kit & suspension mods + bolt ons and you are darn close to a EXC450 in $ but still +25lbs overweight and down on HP/quality.

It fits for some, like the Ninja 650 but its still overweight & has cheap components, with more performance than a bottom dollar guy will spend but less than a serious rider will tolerate. Again, sales sucess? I see leftovers in both X and R WR250s. Popular with their buyers, definetly. Sales? Eh.

Doesn't Japan have home market sub 400cc sportbikes anymore? Seems far easier and cheaper to certify one than engineer a whole new engine/bike.
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Old 12-27-2010, 03:38 PM   #608
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Originally Posted by Navin View Post
Because they WR250r and x, bridge the gap between really good, like a KTM, and really cheesy, like a 230CRF, and impress some but are true to neither high spec performance or cheapo frugality.

Price up really getting a WR250r hooked up with a 350 kit & suspension mods + bolt ons and you are darn close to a EXC450 in $ but still +25lbs overweight and down on HP/quality.
As an average rider who puts about 5000-6000 miles a summer on my bikes, I can't see why I would ever need anything faster than or more powerful than my WR250X. If I said I needed something faster, I think it would only be to feed my ego. And that's why I think most people walk right by these 250's.... they "think" they need something bigger, more powerful, and faster. The vast majority of people riding bigger bikes can't possibly be using that power safely and legally, atleast on the roads I ride on. If you ride a lot of freeways, OK I can see it, but if you are a back road bomber like myself (who never rides the freeway), the 250 with some minor tweeking is all I'll ever need.

And head on over to BigDogAdventures.com and look at all the places that guy's WR250R takes him... and he's had bigger KTM's and Huskies, but sold them and now rides a WRR.
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Old 12-27-2010, 04:14 PM   #609
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And another guy with an old XL125 will tell you its all he will ever need. This statement wasn't meant to insult WR250 owners. There is no shortage of riders who want more than 25 HP and more race level suspension along with less weight.

In the end, not many of our motorcycles desires are based on what we minimally "need". If they were I guess a GZ250 (or a CBR250) would satisfy everyone as a streetbike.
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Old 12-27-2010, 05:33 PM   #610
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Old 12-27-2010, 09:23 PM   #611
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Navin View Post

Doesn't Japan have home market sub 400cc sportbikes anymore? Seems far easier and cheaper to certify one than engineer a whole new engine/bike.
Kawasaki is selling its 250 Ninja, and now a 400 Ninja. None of the others offer any. Plenty of good low mileage used ones for sale though.
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Old 12-28-2010, 06:59 AM   #612
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http://www.world.honda.com/CBR250R/
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Old 12-28-2010, 07:09 AM   #613
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And a diversion,

http://www1.suzuki.co.jp/motor/gsr400/index.html

http://www1.suzuki.co.jp/motor/impulse/index.html
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Old 12-28-2010, 07:24 AM   #614
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since we are not going to get any good cbr 250 discussion here, id recommend at least trying one of the new cbr 250 forums.

cbr250.org. There is a guy already that has one, he is in thailand.
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Old 12-28-2010, 07:54 AM   #615
mitchxout
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dogjaw View Post
last two pages: 24 posts
actual references to a CBR250: 5

It took 41 pages of posts about a 250 no one has ever rode before the thread fizzled. I don't see a problem.
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