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Old 12-30-2010, 07:30 PM   #691
MiamiMotorcyclist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohninVT View Post
You need to let it go. An Aprilia RS250 weighs 370lbs wet. An FZR400 weighs 415lbs wet. An NC30/VFR400 weighs 405. A CBR250RR weighs 360. High spec means MORE weight sometimes. Stiffer frames made from exotic materials still weigh more than spindly frames and swigarms made from steel. Big forks, big disc brakes mean added weight...why can't you grasp that?

The highest spec. small displacement bikes that have been sold worldwide the last 20 years all weigh as much or 10% more than this bike. The Ninja 250 weighs 375lbs.

When a manufacturer sells a bike in the US, they have to figure that you're fat. They have to assume you're going to heave your fat ass on the little bike and then have your fat wife with her muffin top showing climb on the back. Then they have to assume that you two fatty Mcfatties are going to ride down to McBurgerKingWendy's to each eat double quarter heart stoppers with extra cheese. How the hell is a 250lb, spindly-ass dirtbike rear subframe gonna handle Yolanda on the back with her supersized Oreo McFlurry?

Here is a novel thought...consider that a heavier bike is far easier to tune the suspension for because rider/passenger weight are a lesser percentage of the overall weight. That means the forks and shocks can have better performance over a smaller range.

Here is another novel thought, how about you stop comparing a beginner's streetbike to an MX bike? Compare it to other streetbikes. If you do a little research, you might be embarassed that you pushed the meaningless comparison for so long.
Fat people on a bike, in America ....nah, never happen.
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Old 12-30-2010, 07:58 PM   #692
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Originally Posted by DevilNinjaDog View Post
I don't think that's it. I think they know it wouldn't sell at all because people would look at it and say "This bike costs almost the same amount as the 600cc machine -- so why would I buy the machine with less displacement for almost the same money? I'll just get the 600."

A 250 has to cost a lot less than the 600 -- or people are just going to buy the 600.
MSRP on a 2010 Honda CBR600 is just over $11,000, or just over $12,000 if you get ABS. (According to my quick google search)

The hypothetical $8000 250 Supersport would cost $4000 less than a CBR600 with ABS. In other words, the 600 would cost roughly 50% more than the 250. =>If someone could build a high tech 250 for $8000, it WOULD cost a lot less than a current 600.

That said, would I buy an $8000 250? Unlikely. For another $2k I could buy a Ducati Monster or Hypermotard. I'd be more likely to buy a $4000 250 like the bike we're talking about. And my daily drivers lately have been a 900ss and a 996 Ducati. (Though my current project bikes are both small singles)

Oh, and there is no way in hell I'd buy a $12,000 600. No way, no how.
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Old 12-30-2010, 08:03 PM   #693
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To Wuwei, yes I have ridden the 250 Ninja, it is faster. The Honda has a better finish to it & just feels a little better in the 60 to 70 MPH range. I do like the larger fuel tank on the Ninja, as I do not like stopping for fuel on long trips.
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Old 12-30-2010, 08:17 PM   #694
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Spotch, Yes the passenger seat is separate, (but my passenger always goes with me) it has a key access to unlock & under the seat is a small compartment that has a tool kit & room for a few small items & what appears to be a hook for a helmet lock. The riders seat is removed by two bolts to gain access to the battery. The two hand holds are bolted on in that same area under the rear seat, guess if Honda doesn't come out wih an after market rack, one could make one to to bolt on where the hand holds are.
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Old 12-30-2010, 09:04 PM   #695
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Alright. I've been lurking a long time. First post. I own a 09 Ninja 250 and happen to be a member on Scorch's site. I bought my bike brand new. I absolutely love it and plan to never sell it. It is my first street bike, I started out on dirt when I was 10. Had the CBR in this form been available at the time I would have given it a serious look. Honda nailed it. Kudos to them, I hope they sell a ton of 'em because the US needs MORE smaller bikes. I work for the largest motorcycle gear and accessory retailer in the US and I meet a brand new rider at least once a week. I'd say a vast majority of them are starting on 600cc or larger sportbikes, probably close to 70%. I feel the main reason is that we lack a large selection of small displacement "sporty" bikes for newbies to choose from. This Honda is one more option and I hope that it keeps more riders in the sport. I don't care if they are commuters, weekend warriors, or wannabees. It makes me sick to see a guy I just met 6 months ago walk into my store in a cast and crutches cause he lowsided his ZXGSR6RR. When I ask what happened the story is usually the same, panicked, came in too hot, etc. Then they say they won't be getting back on the horse cause they can't afford to, or they don't want to get hurt again. That really sucks. Maybe, just maybe, more newbies will buy a bike more suitable for a beginner, instead of a race machine, now that this beautiful bike is available as well.

Oh, and FWIW, I would love a 400cc I4 full on sportbike for 8K. Light weight, awesome suspension, good brakes. Fuckin awesome. Where do I sign?
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Old 12-31-2010, 04:44 AM   #696
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Wonder what they'll be...

On the "tech details" video they say Honda will offer accessories for this bike; will be curious to see just what that includes - dare one hope for a centerstand?

Ned
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Old 12-31-2010, 05:26 AM   #697
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Navin View Post
I've ridden the 690 Duke and a new EX250. I agree with you. No way the Duke is 3 times as much fun. More like 10 times. If you ride that and don't acknowledge the massive difference in riding pleasure, you may well be dead. See a doctor!



You're way too funny man.
Grab yourself a few school days and you'll learn how to find pleasure in
just about everything. As mentioned previously , Grand National champion and all 'round motorcycling legend, Gary Nixon uses a 250 Ninja as his daily ride.
Given the hardware he's ridden and the options available to him, I'm thinking
that he might take exception to your observattions.... which have always been somewhat... puerile imho.
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Old 12-31-2010, 05:26 AM   #698
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Driftguy, I have a BMW 1150 GS back in the states, think I might downsize a little when I get back. I am 65 years old & really don't need to go 125 MPH anymore. Hope this "little" Honda is in the showrooms by April. Has all the power I think I will need.
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Old 12-31-2010, 06:18 AM   #699
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My guess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Navin View Post
I've ridden the 690 Duke and a new EX250. I agree with you. No way the Duke is 3 times as much fun. More like 10 times. If you ride that and don't acknowledge the massive difference in riding pleasure, you may well be dead. See a doctor!
I rode a 2002 Duke II for a number of years, and guess that I could have as much - or more - fun on the CBR250R. We'll see...
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Old 12-31-2010, 07:08 AM   #700
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[QUOTE=Terrytori;14817334]

You're way too funny man.
Grab yourself a few school days and you'll learn how to find pleasure in
just about everything. As mentioned previously , Grand National champion and all 'round motorcycling legend, Gary Nixon uses a 250 Ninja as his daily ride.

And the most sucessful roadracers ride XR80s around for practice, and though I do enjoy the occasional XR80 or EX250 ride, its not fun for long when there are other options. Training on a TTR125 for MX is fun too, but not as fun as a full on 250f! I wonder what MPG Nixon gets on his Ninja?

I bet you couldn't peel him off a 690SMC on a proper road!
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Old 12-31-2010, 07:36 AM   #701
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rosmoe View Post
To Wuwei, yes I have ridden the 250 Ninja, it is faster. The Honda has a better finish to it & just feels a little better in the 60 to 70 MPH range. I do like the larger fuel tank on the Ninja, as I do not like stopping for fuel on long trips.
Hi Rosmoe,

How tall are you?

Thanks!
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Old 12-31-2010, 07:37 AM   #702
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As could be expected in a thread this long, the conversation went all over the place.
I found this thread and read most of it this morning because I just got the new Motorcyclist and read the 250 article therein.

I would like to redirect attention to the MCN article previously cited:
http://www.motorcycle.com/manufactur...iew-90209.html
Particularly the bits about the new engine tech. I have been interested for some time in how the new superscooters, mostly with WC singles (yes, I omit the Tmax, Silverwing & Big Burg), are able to produce such out-of-proportion performance, especially since they're not particularly light. Unless the magic is in their CVT transmissions, something has to have changed in 4-stroke singles. Maybe this article helps answer that.
Make no mistake, fuel will not get cheaper and the Hayabusas of the world will be in the same position as the big SUVs were some months back with $5/gallon gas. In other words, what Europe has already been dealing with for years.
For me, the idea of a lighter, simpler way to get around, with sufficient performance to carry my 200+ lb. carcass down the interstate, is attractive. If it reaches that level, it will do anything town or country roads can offer. I could give a ratzass about the track.
I still don't know if a 250 would do it but the improvements discussed can easily be carried over to a 500.
I can envision something along the lines of a modern Velocette or even a Panther as a daily driver.
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Old 12-31-2010, 07:51 AM   #703
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I've had a 600cc single get over 60 MPG with a pumper carb and run under 50MPG on a EX250. A Busa can gurgle along and get 40+ MPG and turn around and run under 10 seconds in a 1/4. Economy is found in your wrist. A 250 sinlge will do most of what you ask with a downshift in headwinds and uphills but don't count on passing power.

If you are in the bike game only to save $, buy a used rat 250 and ride it till the chain falls off and the tires peel from the rims. Cheap cars beat bikes in $cost per mile. Fuel is only one factor and the difference in tires and driveline is huge.
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Old 12-31-2010, 08:05 AM   #704
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True. Maintenance costs are the killer on bikes. You can replace all 4 corners on a car for the same or less than a bike and get much better rubber life. Same for shocks, etc. Especially if American-made.

When more cars are getting 40mpg+ highway, bikes are either going to have to improve or be relegated to the expensive luxury category. Wait a minute, they already are!

I still think there are some practicalities to owning a bike. Enough to justify one to the better half, anyway.

My old GS450, the predecessor to the current GS500, got a consistent 60 mpg. My 1990 PC800 gets between 45 - 50 mpg even though it really needs to be tuned. Newer bikes should be better but really haven't improved in the mileage department. At least the PC has hydraulic valves. Try to find something that doesn't needs valve adjustment nowadays, outside Harley and a few more.
Singles offer the economy of simplicity. Less valves to adjust, etc.

Southerner screwed with this post 12-31-2010 at 08:12 AM
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Old 12-31-2010, 08:15 AM   #705
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DesmoDog View Post
MSRP on a 2010 Honda CBR600 is just over $11,000, or just over $12,000 if you get ABS. (According to my quick google search)

The hypothetical $8000 250 Supersport would cost $4000 less than a CBR600 with ABS. In other words, the 600 would cost roughly 50% more than the 250. =>If someone could build a high tech 250 for $8000, it WOULD cost a lot less than a current 600.

That said, would I buy an $8000 250? Unlikely. For another $2k I could buy a Ducati Monster or Hypermotard. I'd be more likely to buy a $4000 250 like the bike we're talking about. And my daily drivers lately have been a 900ss and a 996 Ducati. (Though my current project bikes are both small singles)

Oh, and there is no way in hell I'd buy a $12,000 600. No way, no how.
Holy freaking crap I had no idea the CBR600 was that expensive. That's insane.

Well, like you said "would I buy an $8000 250? Unlikely. For another $2k I could buy a Ducati Monster or Hypermotard."

Exactly my point, though I guess it wasn't supported with the CBR example...
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