Honda CBR250R.

[Gryphon12]

BMW's may have a lot of "character" issues, but they build the best FI system in the world balancing power & economy. This is why the F650GS/Dakar (singles) and the F800 Series twins rule for fuel economy. They also make 10-15% less peak HP than their competitors on a displacement basis, but they maintain a broad torque curve to compensate.

No one else will make the compromises that BMW Engineering does, because everyone else is selling Horsepower while BMW is selling BMW, and go their own way.

[Birdmove]

Originally Posted by Graemsay

The upcoming BMW G650GS is rumoured to cost about the same as a Ninja 250 and (by extension) I'm guessing the CBR250R in the UK. The price I've heard is £4599, which makes it a competitor, though the styles are different.

What really caught my eye is the fuel consumption, or lack thereof. At 90 km/h / 56 mph the claimed figures are 3.2 l/100 km, which equates to 88 mpg (Imperial) or 74 mpg (US). At 120 km/h / 75 mph it drops to 4.3 l/100 km / 66 mpg (Imperial) / 55 mpg (US).

I took a look at both the G650GS and CBR250R at a show last year, and the BMW seemed to be better finished.

I like the BMW G650GS too, but in the USA the Ninja is about $4000, and the G650GS is over $7000. Yopu could about get two Ninjas for the same $ as one BMW. And, yes, the BMW singles have always got top gas mileage in that engine class from what I know.

[Ultra]

Originally Posted by mr openroad

if only 20% of the braking is applied to the front and it locks up how can this be good for a new rider? do you work for Honda?

I don't work for Honda, I'm just not willfully ignorant on how brakes work and I'm not blind to see the "Brought to you by Kawasaki" adverts all over that review.

Try to follow what I'm saying: if he jabbed the rear brake on a non-abs model during a turn (like he did in this test), he would have locked up the back wheel and slid the rear out. For a noob, this would result in a lowside.

Instead, due to linked brakes and ABS, the rear didn't lock, all that happened was the front brake engaged and stopped the bike. He was complaining that the front dived, but he was the one who made the mistake by stabbing the rear brake in a turn.

How exactly is this a dangerous thing for a noob? It's not. The reviewer saying the linked brakes is dangerous shows a clear bias. He stabbed the rear brake in a turn. Why would a pro do this and then claim it's a PROBLEM that the rear didn't lock?

That same reviewer can be seen locking up the rear on the Ninja over and over again.

I also prefer the Ninja, but that review was shit.

[fly2low]

Although overlapping, I think Honda targets a little bit different segment. Well, I am talking about SE Asia which I think is Honda's primary target market for this bike.

In this area, there is this Ninja 250R targeted for those who want sporty riding look alike 600cc.

Honda targets sporty commuter segment, more "gentleman" like small bike.

For the manic teenagers or those with red blood, there is 2-stroke Kawasaki KRR ZX150 which has the same peak hp with(albeit different power band), 2/3 of the weight of, and about $1000 cheaper than the Ninja 250R.

The KRR will eat the other 2 for breakfast.





ENGINE
Type Liquid-cooled, 2-stroke, Single cylinder
Displacement 148 cm³
Bore and Stroke 59.0 mm x 54.4 mm
Compression ratio 7.3:1
Performance:
a) Maximum power 22.1 kW {30.0 PS} @ 10,500 rpm
b) Maximum torque 21.6 N∙m {2.20 kgf∙m} @ 9,000 rpm
Fuel system MIKUNI VM28
Starting Primary kick
Ignition Magnito DC-CDI
Lubrication Superlube

DRIVETRAIN
Transmission 6-speed, Constant mesh, Return shift
Gear ratios:
1st 2.700 (27/10)
2nd 1.706 (29/17)
3rd 1.300 (26/20)
4th 1.090 (24/22)
5th 0.952 (20/21)
6th 0.863 (19/22)
Final reduction ratio 2.785 (39/14)
Clutch Wet multi disc

FRAME
Type Tubular double cradle
Caster (rake) 24º
Tyre:
a) front 90/90-17 49S Tube type
b) rear 110/80-17 57S Tube type

SUSPENSION
Front: Type Telescopic fork
Rear: Type Mono-shock with swingarm

BRAKES
Front: Type Disc brake, 2-piston calipers
Rear: Type Disc brake, 2-piston calipers

DIMENSIONS
Overall length 1,965 mm
Overall width 725 mm
Overall height 1,075 mm
Wheelbase 1,300 mm
Ground clearance 131 mm
Seat height 780 mm
Dry weight 124.5 kg
Fuel capacity 11.5 litres
ENGINE
Type Liquid-cooled, 2-stroke, Single cylinder
Displacement 148 cm³
Bore and Stroke 59.0 mm x 54.4 mm
Compression ratio 7.3:1
Performance:
a) Maximum power 22.1 kW {30.0 PS} @ 10,500 rpm
b) Maximum torque 21.6 N∙m {2.20 kgf∙m} @ 9,000 rpm
Fuel system MIKUNI VM28
Starting Primary kick
Ignition Magnito DC-CDI
Lubrication Superlube

DRIVETRAIN
Transmission 6-speed, Constant mesh, Return shift
Gear ratios:
1st 2.700 (27/10)
2nd 1.706 (29/17)
3rd 1.300 (26/20)
4th 1.090 (24/22)
5th 0.952 (20/21)
6th 0.863 (19/22)
Final reduction ratio 2.785 (39/14)
Clutch Wet multi disc

FRAME
Type Tubular double cradle
Caster (rake) 24º
Tyre:
a) front 90/90-17 49S Tube type
b) rear 110/80-17 57S Tube type

SUSPENSION
Front: Type Telescopic fork
Rear: Type Mono-shock with swingarm

BRAKES
Front: Type Disc brake, 2-piston calipers
Rear: Type Disc brake, 2-piston calipers

DIMENSIONS
Overall length 1,965 mm
Overall width 725 mm
Overall height 1,075 mm
Wheelbase 1,300 mm
Ground clearance 131 mm
Seat height 780 mm
Dry weight 124.5 kg
Fuel capacity 11.5 litres

[Navin]

Fly2low, me thinks you are spliting hairs within an already very narrow catagory. A "gentleman's commuter"?

And for posting pics of that KRR, you, my friend, do suk.

[Robert_C]

Originally Posted by Ultra

That same reviewer can be seen locking up the rear on the Ninja over and over again.

I noticed that too. I was left wondering if he was just a poor rider or if he was trying to look "cool." I decided he was doing it for the cool factor. However, if I saw someone doing that on the strreet, I would write it off to poor riding skills.

[fly2low]

Originally Posted by Navin

Fly2low, me thinks you are spliting hairs within an already very narrow catagory. A "gentleman's commuter"?

And for posting pics of that KRR, you, my friend, do suk.

From our perspective, it is splitting hair. But consider that slice as the whole pie over there. Some of those countries have some tough regulations there. Some of them limit the displacement at 250cc and tax much much more for anything bigger than that. So, if you are the Big 4 there, you will have to see that slice as the whole pie and slice it further.

I hope the KRR reignites your high performance small bike passion. Really, 28hp at <300lbs, sounds like a good idea to me. You seem to be slammed very hard by others on the other thread. Feel free to repost the KRR over there.

And yes, I 've been drooling all over it, too. Been telling myself if I don't live in The Great Republic of California, I'd probably import one, too, as a "racing vehicle." It's a much lesser PIA to deal with something like this if you live outside California.

The irony is the folks over there are probably drooling on what we ride here and would probably give their left ball if they are allowed to legally purchase and ride them at what we pay for here. Talking about the grass being greener ....

[Navin]

Originally Posted by Robert_C

I noticed that too. I was left wondering if he was just a poor rider or if he was trying to look "cool." I decided he was doing it for the cool factor. However, if I saw someone doing that on the strreet, I would write it off to poor riding skills.

The 2 parking lot skids were definetly goofing off but the turn may have simply been a case of backing it into the corner. Its fun on a secure road!

I mentioned the KRR pic over in the "everybody hates small premium bikes" thread too. Hopefully Suzuki will bring out a 2012 GSXR250RR that is even slower and vibier than the CBR, to give Honda something to shoot below for 2013!

[fly2low]

I'll be happy if Yamaha fits WR250X engine into YZF-R125 chassis with some adjustments then price it at $4000 .


C'mon, Yamaha!

[markjenn]

Originally Posted by fly2low

I'll be happy if Yamaha fits WR250X engine into YZF-R125 chassis with some adjustments then price it at $4000 .

I would be too, but given that the WR250X is priced at $6600 (with a simpler and presumably lower-cost chassis), its not in the cards.

- Mark

[fly2low]

Originally Posted by Navin

The 2 parking lot skids were definetly goofing off but the turn may have simply been a case of backing it into the corner. Its fun on a secure road!

I am familiar with that road as it is in my neck of the woods. In weekdays, that road is pretty much empty. That particular stretch is an entrance to a local park with a good view in both directions. The risk they were running there was to ride over a squirrel.

[Navin]

I'm surprised there aren't more sweet tire slide marks then! Must be alot of ABS guys riding there?

[fly2low]

Just to prove my hair about the slice of the pie/splitting hair thing:

Yamaha has both YZF-R125 (Euro made) and YZF-R15 (Indian made).

CBR250R is more akin to YZF-R15 than to YZF-R125: it is a sporty commuter or a "gentleman's sporty commuter."

The R125 is more hardcore while the R15 is more of "gentleman's sporty commuter." Both are available in Australia with different target demographic. Let me quote their marketing pitch from their website with important keywords highlighted:

YZF-R15


With all the ‘R’ hallmarks, the YZF-R15 will appeal to riders keen to own a piece of race bred heritage. And with a high level of user friendliness, the R15 will also appeal to riders who need to ride a motorcycle every day.
R15 designs were developed in the same modeling room where YZF-R1 designers worked and information was shared, ensuring that the ‘R’ lineage was passed on. The new model also incorporates practical features such as a comfortable riding position for both pilot and pillion.
With the ability to cruise at 120kmh plus and return an average fuel consumption of around 45kms per litre, the R15 blends performance, reliability and low running costs. It is designed to appeal to riders looking for a practical motorcycle for every day riding that sports R-series trademark sharp looks.
Tech heads are well catered for with a 150cc liquid cooled and fuel injected engine slotting into a Deltabox chassis boasting linked monocross suspension. R15 bristles with state-of-the-art technology also seen on the world’s best supersport bikes, such as a forged aluminium piston running in an all aluminium DiASil cylinder which offers the benefits of light weight, great heat dissipation, less oil consumption and high levels of wear resistance.


YZF-R125



Inspired by genius
Ever heard the expression ‘Small is beautiful’? It could have been created for the all new YZF-R125, the exciting new member of the R-series family and the most advanced 125 production supersport machine that Yamaha has ever built.
This radical, high-revving, fuel-injected 125 is the work of the same engineers who created our legendary YZF-R1 and YZF-R6 supersport bikes. And, as you’d expect, the YZF-R125 is packed with advanced MotoGP technology as well as a whole range of R-series type engine and chassis features. Its liquid-cooled, 4-stroke, 4-valve, single cylinder, SOHC engine is tuned to deliver free-revving performance right through to maximum power at 9000rpm – and for instant response and efficient operation this remarkable 6-speed 125 is equipped with a compact fuel injection system.
The race-inspired chassis features a Deltabox frame and aluminium swinging arm for outstanding handling performance, and lightweight 5-spoke wheels help to minimise unsprung weight to give impressive road holding. A large diameter 292mm front disc with a 230mm diameter rear disc make for effective stopping power, and the aggressive R-series bodywork lets everybody know exactly where this bike is coming from.
The YZF-R125 is targeted at the discerning buyer who demands best-in-class engine and handling performance as well as winning R-series style. In the engine department, the new R125 benefits from a 4-valve cylinder head that delivers high levels of intake and exhaust efficiency for ultra-responsive performance.
For instant throttle response, this new high-tech 125 features a compact fuel injection system fed by a large-capacity airbox which, combined with the two inlet valves, delivers optimum intake efficiency together with excellent throttle response across the rev range.
Featuring bore and stroke dimensions of 52mm x 58.6mm, the compact short-stroke engine has a free-revving character that delivers strong acceleration. This short stroke layout – combined with the performance-boosting qualities of the 4-valve head, fuel injection system and free-flowing exhaust – gives the R125 the strongest overall performance in the 125 4-stroke class.
Performance is also enhanced by the fitment of a free-flowing largecapacity R6-style mid-ship muffler, whose location helps to centralise mass for neutral handling performance. The exhaust system accommodates dual catalysers, as well as an air induction system which introduces air into the exhaust to enable more complete combustion of any unburnt gases, and in doing so it helps to reduce emissions to even lower levels.
To optimise the class-leading performance characteristics of its all-new high-tech 125cc liquid-cooled engine, the R125 is equipped with a 6-speed transmission which keeps the engine on the boil and ensures a competitive top speed.

[fly2low]

Originally Posted by markjenn

I would be too, but given that the WR250X is priced at $6600 (with a simpler and presumably lower-cost chassis), its not in the cards.

- Mark

The chance of Yamaha to build YZF-R250 is better than the chance of Suzuki to build GSX-R250. At least Yamaha has got both the correct chassis and engine. It takes development but it is not impossible for their engineers to put 2+2 together if there is such demand. Suzuki has neither and they have to build it from scratch and it is more costly for them. In markets with tiered licensing, Suzuki's global strategy is to restrict their bigger bikes instead of making smaller bikes. So, unfortunately for Navin, the chance of a camel to enter the eye of a needle is still better than the chance of Suzuki to make a GSX-R250.

[Navin]

The YZF125 makes both the CBR and EX250 look pretty lame. I'd say if they have to be bunched together in a segment outside of the YZF125, I get it, but the CBR, EX and R15 are damn close to my eye. Sporty looking standards built obviously to a lowest MSRP as possible. The YZF125 is probably close to the RS4 Ape???

Good bit of info, thanks.

I agree on never seeing the GSXR250, maybe Aprilia or KTM will come thru.