ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Orange Crush
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 09-18-2012, 03:30 PM   #1771
Tijuana_Taxi
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jun 2009
Location: Boise,Idaho
Oddometer: 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustavo.Ramos View Post
Just loaded a US specs bike map into a EU bike. After loading got DTC PO444 which is related to the cannister smog device. Since EU bikes do not have this, how can i work around this DTC? Already erased the DTC but it got back the FI light. Read somethng about disabling the SAI system, anyone else experienced this?

My tuneecu is still not working fully..
On the map screen over to the left are the check boxes for O2 sensors, 2nd throttle butterflies etc.... there should a check box next to SAI system. Uncheck it and save the map and upload it again....not sure if this will fix it as I have a US model and had to do the resistor mod. Hope unchecking the box works for you.

Tijuana_Taxi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2012, 04:45 PM   #1772
jconly
Gnarly Adventurer
 
jconly's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: NYC
Oddometer: 371
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuber View Post
NO, it will CREATE the need for the 15min idle procedure. Previous versions of software can only create the Reset Adapt by reloading a map. Now we can do a Reset Adapt after changing valve clearances, changing plugs, changing TPS settings without reloading a map.

Thanks Tom! This is one update I've been looking for.
I wasn't aware that we ever needed to do anything in the past to be able to perform the procedure.
I thought all it took was starting up and letting it idle for 15mins without touching anything, and turning off within 1 min of hitting the 15min mark.
jconly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2012, 09:05 PM   #1773
Zuber
Zoob
 
Zuber's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2004
Location: Main Street, Shedd, Oregon
Oddometer: 1,760
That's a rumor that I've been trying to kill for several years now. Letting your bike idle for 15min just wastes fuel, it is no different than riding it for 15 minutes. You must use software to Reset the Adapt first.
__________________
"Dad, can I get a motorcycle when I grow up?"
"Son, you can't do both"
Zuber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2012, 05:45 AM   #1774
RoundOz
Plenty of seasoning
 
Joined: Jun 2009
Location: West Nebraska
Oddometer: 967
Hmm

It's a very persistent and highly detailed rumor (having to have the bike on the center stand, no less than 15, no more than 16 min etc, etc)...is there some screw-off out there somewhere chuckling to himself every time he reads this procedure in a KTM blog, while he starts another chain-email that says you have to forward it to 10 friends within 10 min or you will die?
It did seem to work for me after changing pipes, but I guess this is hardly scientific...
Z, can you give more info as to how you KNOW it doesn't do anything special...?
__________________
2009 KTM Adventure
RoundOz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2012, 10:33 PM   #1775
Zuber
Zoob
 
Zuber's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2004
Location: Main Street, Shedd, Oregon
Oddometer: 1,760
I've been to the KTM school on LC4's, LC8's, RC8's and the Electronic class. We ran through the Adaptation several times on all the models. I've got some info added to the HOW concerning this, you can read up on the procedure and reasoning there.

This fuel injection system will self adjust as you ride (or idle), the 07-08's adjust about every 15 min, the 09-up are a little more often. So, that may be some of the effect you saw by idling it. It is better to get several heat cycles to self adjust (if you don't do the Reset Adaptation procedure). So, ride it to lunch, let it set for an hour, ride it home, let it set, you'll notice more of a change after several of these.
__________________
"Dad, can I get a motorcycle when I grow up?"
"Son, you can't do both"
Zuber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2012, 04:35 PM   #1776
Gustavo.Ramos
Studly Adventurer
 
Gustavo.Ramos's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2008
Location: Accross the pond
Oddometer: 711
Just uploaded the 07 Akra map into my 990.

What a difference, still it has a miserable flat spot at 4-5k. Idle is a bit low, still need s atouch up. but that flat spot......

Fitted with Akras + silencers, everything else is EU model bone stock. deactivated EPC and O2 sensors.
__________________
Growing old is mandatory... growing up is optional!

Raid de L'Amitié 2011 RR (link)
690R
Gustavo.Ramos is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2012, 10:12 PM   #1777
Zuber
Zoob
 
Zuber's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2004
Location: Main Street, Shedd, Oregon
Oddometer: 1,760
On the 07-08 maps, there's a big dip (retarded) in the ignition curves at 4-5k rpm. I suspect that's some of the 'flat spot' you all are seeing on these bikes. I don't have the guts to advance the timing in this range.

There is also a huge timing 'spike' just before this, peaking at 3500 rpm. I've made the throttle response better by cutting off this spike (retarding the timing). Retarding is usually a fairly safe thing within reason. This may also remove some of the effect that the big dip has at 4-5k.

Thoughts from the fully instrumented experts?
__________________
"Dad, can I get a motorcycle when I grow up?"
"Son, you can't do both"
Zuber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2012, 11:55 PM   #1778
Vicks
I love sand !!!
 
Vicks's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2006
Location: Abu Dhabi, UAE
Oddometer: 2,963
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustavo.Ramos View Post
Just loaded a US specs bike map into a EU bike. After loading got DTC PO444 which is related to the cannister smog device. Since EU bikes do not have this, how can i work around this DTC? Already erased the DTC but it got back the FI light. Read somethng about disabling the SAI system, anyone else experienced this?

My tuneecu is still not working fully..
I had the same issue when i loaded the '07-'10 US hybrid map on my '07 EU bike. I kept deleting the DTC but it kept popping back. You cannot disable it because its not supposed to be, on the US bikes atleast. So i just copied all the tables from the '07-'10 US hybrid map (which is what i wanted) and pasted them onto my original EU map. No canister errors now .




Quote:
Originally Posted by Tijuana_Taxi View Post
On the map screen over to the left are the check boxes for O2 sensors, 2nd throttle butterflies etc.... there should a check box next to SAI system. Uncheck it and save the map and upload it again....not sure if this will fix it as I have a US model and had to do the resistor mod. Hope unchecking the box works for you.
SAI is not related to canister on the US bikes. So unchecking this box does not work. If you are working on a EU bike, you have to use a EU map as base. You can always copy the table values from which ever map you want. Just use the right base map.
__________________
'07 KTM Adv990S - Gone to a good home
'10 KTM 530Exc-Rally, some items for sale
No myriad hues of laser lights, no bottles that are oozing with nectars from heaven
No beautiful body soft and warm to the touch but, i have a very small desire
Give me a dark... long... winding road, three gears to go and my Hellas on fire !!
Vicks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2012, 10:27 AM   #1779
tahoeacr
Beastly Adventurer
 
tahoeacr's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2007
Location: Lake Tahoe
Oddometer: 2,210
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuber View Post
On the 07-08 maps, there's a big dip (retarded) in the ignition curves at 4-5k rpm. I suspect that's some of the 'flat spot' you all are seeing on these bikes. I don't have the guts to advance the timing in this range.

There is also a huge timing 'spike' just before this, peaking at 3500 rpm. I've made the throttle response better by cutting off this spike (retarding the timing). Retarding is usually a fairly safe thing within reason. This may also remove some of the effect that the big dip has at 4-5k.

Thoughts from the fully instrumented experts?
All I can say is my maps aren't that way. I do have a knock sensor thought. I will be doing alot of ignition timing mapping on the dyno next month. Probably safe to smooth it out but do little adj. at a time, test ride, LISTEN. By the way, my knock sensor seldom goes off. Only at 2-2.5k off road.
tahoeacr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2012, 12:51 PM   #1780
RoundOz
Plenty of seasoning
 
Joined: Jun 2009
Location: West Nebraska
Oddometer: 967
Thanks.

That is great information. Excuse me for getting the impression from this forum that KTM doesn't train it's techs very much on the LC8 FI system.

So, would it be true to say that just riding the bike, especially through several heat cycles, accomplishes the same thing as doing a reset adaptation, or loading a new map...just that the latter possibly gets you to a better state of tune a little quicker? I guess I am imagining that there are several memory registers where offsets or multipliers are stored and incrementally modified by changing inputs (eg., changing air pressure while climbing a mountain range) and that a default figure is stored in each of them by doing a reset (?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuber View Post
I've been to the KTM school on LC4's, LC8's, RC8's and the Electronic class. We ran through the Adaptation several times on all the models. I've got some info added to the HOW concerning this, you can read up on the procedure and reasoning there.

This fuel injection system will self adjust as you ride (or idle), the 07-08's adjust about every 15 min, the 09-up are a little more often. So, that may be some of the effect you saw by idling it. It is better to get several heat cycles to self adjust (if you don't do the Reset Adaptation procedure). So, ride it to lunch, let it set for an hour, ride it home, let it set, you'll notice more of a change after several of these.
__________________
2009 KTM Adventure
RoundOz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2012, 10:22 PM   #1781
Zuber
Zoob
 
Zuber's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2004
Location: Main Street, Shedd, Oregon
Oddometer: 1,760
KTM trains the tech's very well, in fact much better than the 'big four'. It's just that KTM doesn't want the tech's mucking around in the guts. KTM has created a map for each bike that runs well, doesn't destruct, has very good power AND passes Calif emissions. The classes are all to repair, not modify, KTM bikes.
__________________
"Dad, can I get a motorcycle when I grow up?"
"Son, you can't do both"
Zuber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2012, 12:13 PM   #1782
jconly
Gnarly Adventurer
 
jconly's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: NYC
Oddometer: 371
Well today I tried to adjust my TPS before I head out for a big trip on the 20th... Well no luck.

Maybe someone can tell me what's going on. I went through the normal procedure. Hooked up TuneECU and turned the key on. Read the TPS V value, and it is about .5V too high all around. So, I loosened the screw, and moved the sensor, but the reading never chances. Always .66V

So I took the screw completely off, an removed the sensor. Reinstalled, and all of a sudden (I think) my Init sequence is now different. Take a look.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?nomobile=1&v=aQEU9VemS2E

Instead of settling, the butterflies seem to hunt for position. You can't really
Make it out in the movie, but they definitely wiggle during this before it settled. Correct me if I'm wrong but this is not normal... And I still can't getting V values to shift.

Any thought?

EDIT: I figured it out.. for those of you unfamiliar with the TPS sensor like I was, and have the urge to remove it.. it's spring loaded. To get to work properly when reinstalling:
With the bike off, manually open the secondary butterflies all the way (just slide the top linkage on the left of the TB. Then go ahead and slide the sensor back on, and slide the butterflies closed. Problem solved.

Still didn't manage to get any variation in V though?

jconly screwed with this post 10-03-2012 at 03:47 PM
jconly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2012, 07:31 PM   #1783
Zuber
Zoob
 
Zuber's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2004
Location: Main Street, Shedd, Oregon
Oddometer: 1,760
You are adjusting the wrong TPS. You grabbed the easy to reach 2nd throttle sensor. The primary throttle position sensor is on the front body, low, on the right. You will need to drill a hole in the airbox to reach the screw.

You will need to now set both sensors. I don't have the 2nd throttle sensor setting in front of me right now.

edit....from the KTM LC8 repair man... TPS values for the 2nd Throttle...
Measure between the black (ground) and the blue (floating positive), adjust to get 1.0v at closed and 4.3v at fully open. These are approximate values, per KTM.
__________________
"Dad, can I get a motorcycle when I grow up?"
"Son, you can't do both"

Zuber screwed with this post 10-03-2012 at 08:37 PM
Zuber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2012, 09:47 PM   #1784
jconly
Gnarly Adventurer
 
jconly's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: NYC
Oddometer: 371
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuber View Post
You are adjusting the wrong TPS. You grabbed the easy to reach 2nd throttle sensor. The primary throttle position sensor is on the front body, low, on the right. You will need to drill a hole in the airbox to reach the screw.

You will need to now set both sensors. I don't have the 2nd throttle sensor setting in front of me right now.

edit....from the KTM LC8 repair man... TPS values for the 2nd Throttle...
Measure between the black (ground) and the blue (floating positive), adjust to get 1.0v at closed and 4.3v at fully open. These are approximate values, per KTM.
Oh man, can't believe that didn't cross my mind.
After the whole thing I noticed there was one upfront too, and thought to myself.. how come nobody mentions adjusting two.

Thanks for the info on the second throttle. I swear my service manual is missing pages! The info I have is so limited on the 990. The only TPS info I can find relates to checking the V on the 950 TPS, and there is no mention of a second TPS anywhere. And it goes up to 2011!

Edit: Can I ask, what chapter did you find this?
jconly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2012, 01:55 AM   #1785
Loui€
Rides With Reindeer
 
Loui€'s Avatar
 
Joined: May 2012
Location: PoroWaara
Oddometer: 44
adjusting TPS in 990 adve

"You are adjusting the wrong TPS. You grabbed the easy to reach 2nd throttle sensor. The primary throttle position sensor is on the front body, low, on the right. You will need to drill a hole in the airbox to reach the screw."



Hi.

no need for any holes, read the post in here:

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...postcount=1711

especially this part:
"changing hex-bolt into TPS instead of original stupid torx, now I can adjust it same time/way like TB:s from upwards, just open airfilterboxlid and take off filter"

to change the bolt you need to take off the airfilterbox a.s.o., but after that simple modification TPS-adjusting is easy...

L
Loui€ is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 01:44 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014