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Old 03-02-2011, 09:46 AM   #481
tahoeacr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MotorOlly View Post
Hi Tahoeacr. Am I right in understanding that you say the secondaries are operating independant of the maps? From the feel of the bike I was guessing it was which ever butterfly was more closed the map reading was taken from its TPS, almost like an OR gate, does that sound wrong then?
Out the other night I got to open it up a bit more, there did seem a little stumbling at lower revs roll on to WOT. I've ordered up a UEGO to plug into a picoscope I have which'll run off a laptop on the back seat and get some data, hopefully get a clearer picture then. It's an innovate unit which can simulate a narrow band output too so the ECU should be able to operate as normal with the o2s switched on, saves me drilling holes in the pipe!
Cyborg, I was under the impression every LC8 of a year had the same cams, eg part nos were the same for 07 SDs and ADVs. Did you get much of a change? Love the avitar btw, personal childhood hero or rather smeeeheee!
Olly
From 07 on the SD got alot of different parts. 07 the heads were a different part #(if I remember right) only because the water jackets were made smaller to slow down the flow in the head. Somewhere SDR's got bigger valves, a port job, and higher lift cam. The cranks are also different.
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Old 03-02-2011, 09:48 AM   #482
tahoeacr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tahoeacr View Post
From 07 on the SD got alot of different parts. 07 the heads were a different part #(if I remember right) only because the water jackets were made smaller to slow down the flow in the head. Somewhere SDR's got bigger valves, a port job, and higher lift cam. The cranks are also different.
If I could find one of the data logs where we logged the secondaries it would probably be helpful.
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Old 03-03-2011, 02:39 AM   #483
MotorOlly
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Logs would be great to see thanks very interested to get to the bottom of this one.
I had looked up the part numbers yesterday out of interest and you're right it looks like the 09 ADVs got the cams the SDs had been running for a while. I'll keep my eye out for some SDs then before the tip finally falls of my faulty cam! Ah but its ok 'cause KTM said 'they all do that sir'.....erm.....
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Old 03-03-2011, 09:16 AM   #484
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Sine the 2009+ 990's got SD cams and they got new heads and water pumps among other up grades are the heads etc from the SD as well? The rated power went from 98hp on the 07/08 990 to 106hp and 115hp on the 09/10/11 990 and 990R
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Old 03-03-2011, 08:06 PM   #485
tahoeacr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catalina38 View Post
Sine the 2009+ 990's got SD cams and they got new heads and water pumps among other up grades are the heads etc from the SD as well? The rated power went from 98hp on the 07/08 990 to 106hp and 115hp on the 09/10/11 990 and 990R
I doubt it. The SD heads have bigger valves and give more hp up at higher rpm. Not what the average Adventure rider would want. Someone with parts # access could check. As far as I know only the SD got the water jackets changed. Haven't been following the 09,10 adventures though.
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Old 03-03-2011, 11:42 PM   #486
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Originally Posted by tahoeacr View Post
I doubt it. The SD heads have bigger valves and give more hp up at higher rpm. Not what the average Adventure rider would want. Someone with parts # access could check. As far as I know only the SD got the water jackets changed. Haven't been following the 09,10 adventures though.

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Old 03-04-2011, 02:58 PM   #487
tahoeacr
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Originally Posted by Spark01 View Post
Was this in the early stages of tuning/logging?

Question: maybe i understand something wrong?
Because if i look at the purple graph, i would concluded that the bike is running a bit lean because the most part of the graph is positioned between AFR14-16.
But in the right upper corner is says a AFR of 13,19?
O.k. I'll try this again. It is much easier to follow when you are looking at the real thing. Plus, in the tools drop down menu you can add analog gauges that help follow what is going on. Remember, this data is logged ever .08 of a second. When it is that accurate you will see alot of jagged lines. The right corner info is at 8:51.25 in the line. Let's start from the beginning.
The scale in red on the far left is for the stock Lambda(Blue line on the bottom of the graph).
This Lambda was going out and replaced with a Bosch one right after this. You can see at 8:55 it drops off for over 4 seconds at .09 volts. Plus, the Lambda was reading to low/high. It should stay within .2 and .8 volts.
Next is the Red TPS. It starts at .70v on the scale which is 0% TPS. Peaks at 1.23v(16%) at about 9:15.
Black is RPM
Purple is Air Fuel ratio.
During the first 30 seconds the bike is at idle. The Purple A/F for the most part averages 14.7. At times the stock Lambda drops down and you can see how this effects the A/F(as the ECU is correcting) and idle speed. Cyborg has one of those lazy guy clutches. It would create a little drag on the engine at idle(IMO) changing the MAP making the ECU constantly try and correct.
At 9 minutes 2 seconds the TPS drops while RPM is climbing. Cyborg is probably going downhill or coming up on a traffic jam. Two seconds later TPS and RPM drop rapidly while A/F ratio goes rich. The A/F should at that point go lean. This is a perfect example of what causes the throttle jerk that everyone is trying to get rid of.
At about 9:21 you can see the Lambda is working well and the A/F stays at about 14.7 were it should be for MPG. This is flat ground cruising 3-4% throttle at 3,500RPM. He is getting 50+mpg right there if he is in top gear.

Hope that helps a bit.
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Old 03-04-2011, 03:25 PM   #488
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tahoeacr View Post
O.k. I'll try this again. It is much easier to follow when you are looking at the real thing. Plus, in the tools drop down menu you can add analog gauges that help follow what is going on. Remember, this data is logged ever .08 of a second. When it is that accurate you will see alot of jagged lines. The right corner info is at 8:51.25 in the line. Let's start from the beginning.
The scale in red on the far left is for the stock Lambda(Blue line on the bottom of the graph).
This Lambda was going out and replaced with a Bosch one right after this. You can see at 8:55 it drops off for over 4 seconds at .09 volts. Plus, the Lambda was reading to low/high. It should stay within .2 and .8 volts.
Next is the Red TPS. It starts at .70v on the scale which is 0% TPS. Peaks at 1.23v(16%) at about 9:15.
Black is RPM
Purple is Air Fuel ratio.
During the first 30 seconds the bike is at idle. The Purple A/F for the most part averages 14.7. At times the stock Lambda drops down and you can see how this effects the A/F(as the ECU is correcting) and idle speed. Cyborg has one of those lazy guy clutches. It would create a little drag on the engine at idle(IMO) changing the MAP making the ECU constantly try and correct.
At 9 minutes 2 seconds the TPS drops while RPM is climbing. Cyborg is probably going downhill or coming up on a traffic jam. Two seconds later TPS and RPM drop rapidly while A/F ratio goes rich. The A/F should at that point go lean. This is a perfect example of what causes the throttle jerk that everyone is trying to get rid of.
At about 9:21 you can see the Lambda is working well and the A/F stays at about 14.7 were it should be for MPG. This is flat ground cruising 3-4% throttle at 3,500RPM. He is getting 50+mpg right there if he is in top gear.

Hope that helps a bit.

Thanks for going at that again, TACR...
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Old 03-04-2011, 05:51 PM   #489
tahoeacr
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Forgot to add that all of that log is in closed loop.
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Old 03-05-2011, 02:47 AM   #490
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tahoeacr View Post
O.k. I'll try this again. It is much easier to follow when you are looking at the real thing. Plus, in the tools drop down menu you can add analog gauges that help follow what is going on. Remember, this data is logged ever .08 of a second. When it is that accurate you will see alot of jagged lines. The right corner info is at 8:51.25 in the line. Let's start from the beginning.
The scale in red on the far left is for the stock Lambda(Blue line on the bottom of the graph).
This Lambda was going out and replaced with a Bosch one right after this. You can see at 8:55 it drops off for over 4 seconds at .09 volts. Plus, the Lambda was reading to low/high. It should stay within .2 and .8 volts.
Next is the Red TPS. It starts at .70v on the scale which is 0% TPS. Peaks at 1.23v(16%) at about 9:15.
Black is RPM
Purple is Air Fuel ratio.
During the first 30 seconds the bike is at idle. The Purple A/F for the most part averages 14.7. At times the stock Lambda drops down and you can see how this effects the A/F(as the ECU is correcting) and idle speed. Cyborg has one of those lazy guy clutches. It would create a little drag on the engine at idle(IMO) changing the MAP making the ECU constantly try and correct.
At 9 minutes 2 seconds the TPS drops while RPM is climbing. Cyborg is probably going downhill or coming up on a traffic jam. Two seconds later TPS and RPM drop rapidly while A/F ratio goes rich. The A/F should at that point go lean. This is a perfect example of what causes the throttle jerk that everyone is trying to get rid of.
At about 9:21 you can see the Lambda is working well and the A/F stays at about 14.7 were it should be for MPG. This is flat ground cruising 3-4% throttle at 3,500RPM. He is getting 50+mpg right there if he is in top gear.

Hope that helps a bit.
Ok this makes a lot more sense thanks.

Is the bike of Cyborg now running closed or open loop?, do you have a screen shot of a open loop run?.

I didn't have a change to buy a logger yet, some tax payments got in the way
Because i want to reprogram the ecu to a open loop and i wondering how it affects the afr/lambda: more stable because is not corrected or is it hard too controll to get it close to a prefered value?
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Old 03-07-2011, 07:21 PM   #491
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Originally Posted by Rideimal View Post
Sounds like you and I are having similar problems. I'd love to use TuneECU to rework maps and such, but right now I just want to understand the basics. Unfortunately I haven't found much along those lines. (Links?)

I was able to balance the throttle bodies today; here's what I did:

(1) remove the seat, glove compartment plastics, top of the airbox, and the air filter

(2) open TuneECU and hook up the bike to you laptop. The the connector is under the seat in the compartment with the ABS pump. Start the bike and make sure that your computer is able to talk to the ECU.

(3) click the 'Tests' icon in the upper-right of the screen. You'll see three small gauges on the left and one on the right. The ones you want to watch are the top and middle gauges on the left labeled 'x10 hPa'. Your bike needs to be running at this point.

(4) the goal is to get the readings to be as close as possible. To be clear: the absolute numbers registering don't matter, they just need to be the same (or really close?).

(5) adjustments are made by turning the screw found to the left of the throttle bodies, facing up, with some springs attached to it - it should be pretty obvious. Just make small changes until you get the readings that you want.

That's it for adjusting the throttle bodies - now you need to check the throttle position sensor. It would be great if someone would post an idiot-proof guide to doing that. Anyone?

Could we have some pictures please?
I am having trouble visualizing.

Thanks
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Old 03-07-2011, 09:58 PM   #492
carmima
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Originally Posted by gixxersteph View Post
Could we have some pictures please?
I am having trouble visualizing.

Thanks
Check post #473
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Old 03-08-2011, 04:59 AM   #493
gixxersteph
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Originally Posted by carmima View Post
Check post #473
Probably wasn't clear. I know how to adjust the TPS but not how to balance the TBs. I've poured over the repair manual but I am either thick or its not there. I believe that it involves an adjustment screw on the linkage between the two TBs but I am unsure if it is the front one or rear one.

BTW. I was having connecting issues even after I had made sure all my settings were as suggested in earlier posts. Finally I took my laptop out of power conservation mode and set it for performance and VOILA everything works as it should. No more disconnects

gixxersteph screwed with this post 03-08-2011 at 09:51 AM Reason: typo
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Old 03-08-2011, 08:54 AM   #494
Dusty
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Cable side on the back, with the yellow paint on it in the pic is what i used. Good tip on the power saver mode...

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Old 03-08-2011, 09:50 AM   #495
gixxersteph
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Cable side on the back, with the yellow paint on it in the pic is what i used. Good tip on the power saver mode...

Perfect Dusty - thanks.
Just need to figure out how to get a screwdriver in there.
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