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Old 11-06-2010, 02:59 AM   #61
Spark01
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........

Quote:
FI systems don't require high intake velocities through the throttle bodies...
Yes and No
A EFI engine can run fine without a high(er) velocity in the throttle bodies.
Because it automaticly adjust it's fuel to the ammount of air that is sucked in to the engine.
But to make an engine run more smooth in the lower or mid/range if you immediatly open the throttle, you will need a smooth alteration in air velocity.
That's why secondary valves are used..



here some more about the secondary's

Secondary throttle valves....There are many thoughts on just what the heck they do. Some say it's for noise abatement, others think they just get in the way and affect the true performance of the bike and some would just rather remove them.

Since the introduction of fuel injection, we no longer require a pressure drop through a ventury to pull fuel from a fuel bowl, and introduce it into the engine. We have a fuel pump that sends pressurized fuel to fuel injectors, and thanks to IC chips, and sensors, we can spray the fuel into the engine. No need for fancy needle jets, main jets, primary jets, and airbleed jets. Never mind making sure the fuel level in the carb bowls is the correct height.

There is one thing that's important with the CV carburetor and that's how it keeps the air velocity constant through the intake ports regardless of throttle position. If you ever had flat slide carbs, and immediately opened the throttle, you would notice that the engine would take a big gulp of air, and hesitate, or even stall. Accelerator pumps were introduced to keep this in check. So, in regards to keeping air velocities constant especially at lower engine rpms, one concept for a fuel injected engine is to add separately controlled throttle plates that can move independently from the main throttle plates. This way, if the throttle plates are opened quickly, air velocity will drop, but with the Secondary Throttle plates lagging just behind, can keep the air velocity up, and help with atomization of the fuel injected into the engine. of course if you are racing the bike, and it never sees rpms below 6 to 7,000 rpms, there is no sense on having the secondary throttle plates there, and can be removed for some added increase of air. Most of us don't race, and use the engine through a wide range of rpms, and with the STV's installed really doesn't detract from performance, but keeps it more tractable




On a german KTM forum they did a test with installed/removed 2nd valves on a dyno with a 990sm.
With the valves removed it did run a little bit smoother on the low rpm's but it did loose some power on top?? .
With the valves installed again, the power output on top was back to "normal".
They could reproduce it by removing/installing the 2nd valves.

My sugestion is to set the 2nd valves in the TuneEcu a little bit more open in the 2nd throttle map on the low rpm's.
But don't remove them.
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Spark01 screwed with this post 11-06-2010 at 03:08 AM
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Old 11-06-2010, 12:04 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyborg
Yes, I had it hard-wired to 8 signals, in wires near the ECU. (Tach/RPM, both TPS, both MAP, Atmospheric P, both switching HEGOs) All 0-5v signals except the RPM, which was ~11V FM. Plus had the main wideband O2 sensor logger.

Used a borrowed Innovate wideband and 4 channel data logger from Tahoeacr to be a rolling dyno mule, while using Tuneboy maps Tahoeacr tweaked & tuned from my data runs. Worked pretty well. Ideal would be dual wideband logger (too much $$). I had to switch between front and rear cylinders. I still have the sensor harness in the glovebox if I ever get my hands on another data logger.

Not sure how many of those signals you can get from the ECU through the TuneECU OBD2 interface. Anybody know? I'll be trying it out in a month or so when I can ride again.
I'll look into it with tune ecu and tune boy. Maybe we can use our collective information when you stop in CB sometime. I am looking for a logging alternative. I think your initial way of logging is the best, but not really usable by everyone.

It would be cool to know the important info and what a decent sample rate is.
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Old 11-06-2010, 12:54 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grinns
I'll look into it with tune ecu and tune boy. Maybe we can use our collective information when you stop in CB sometime. I am looking for a logging alternative. I think your initial way of logging is the best, but not really usable by everyone.

It would be cool to know the important info and what a decent sample rate is.
Glad to help if I can. True the hard-wired method is not that easy to implement for everyone and the dedicated loggers can get expensive unless you are in the tune biz, and I'm not. If I could have gotten all the sensor signals from an OBD2 interface I'd have done that instead of the PIA hard-wiring stuff. Used what was available and affordable at the time.
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Old 11-08-2010, 08:44 PM   #64
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Looks like I need to finish putting my TechEdge WBO2 + logging together.... but it like the other units doesn't look at OBDII signals.

My EFI project is getting closer to being a reality, especially now that the TuneECU app was "found" and that it plays with existing hardware.
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Old 11-09-2010, 05:21 AM   #65
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It seems a few people have got (or are getting) this cable and software, I was just wondering if anyone has submitted the tunes to Tom or Alain who write the software? I ask as there seems to be a real lack of tunes listed for the Adventure (http://www.tomhamburg.net/KTM_Tune_list.html). KTM have released at least 5 more maps that I know of that aren't listed.

When I did my Triumph (same FI ECU) back in 98/99 I found it a great help to study the differences Triumph made to the different tune versions before making any changes myself.

So this is a kind-a reminder / kick-up the ass to upload and save your current tune and submit it to the page above, as it helps us all out.

Sheep Shagger screwed with this post 11-09-2010 at 10:39 AM
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Old 11-09-2010, 07:22 AM   #66
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I am sure that this will be changing soon considering the support for the KTM was recently made possible.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheep Shagger
It seems a few people have got (or are getting) this cable and software, I was just wondering if anyone has submitted the tunes to Tom or Alain who write the software? I ask as there seems to be a real lack of tunes listed for the Adventure (http://www.tomhamburg.net/KTM_Tune_list.html). KTM have released at least 5 more than I know of that aren't listed.

When I did my Triumph (same FI ECU) back in 98/99 I found it a great help to study the differences Triumph made to the different tune versions before making any changes myself.

So this is a kind-a reminder / kick-up the ass to upload and save your current tune and submit it to the page above, as it helps us all out.
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Old 11-09-2010, 08:56 AM   #67
Jim Colombotos
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5 more what ...maps?
Thx
JC
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Old 11-09-2010, 10:41 AM   #68
Sheep Shagger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Colombotos
5 more what ...maps?
Thx
JC
Yes. Thanks, just re-worded my post to be clear.
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Old 11-10-2010, 08:40 PM   #69
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I tried them both tonight. Tune Ecu is pretty sweet. It works with the cable I got for tune boy too.

Here are some notes I noticed:
  1. map files are about half the size in TuneEcu when saved from ECU (compared to tuneboy maps)
  2. The map UI on TuneEcu is sweet, way better than tune boy.
  3. Both work on Win7 64bit
  4. Can't really do any "tests" in either of them. Mostly it appears its reading sensor data, which is limited in both. Still pretty good though.
I am sure head2wind has better opinions than me, since I bought the tuneboy cable from him. I have not tried to load a map through TuneECU. I only saved my current map.
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Old 11-11-2010, 04:32 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gluaisrothaí
I have a map in my -09 A that's based on an -R map modified for Akra pipes and with some extra fuel low down in the L1 and 2 maps. It works reasonably well for me, I get a very consistent 37.5 US MPG running 75-85, and I've been happy enough for the last 10K not to mess with it more.

I'm happy to share, although I wouldn't try this in anything other than an -09 or newer due to some problems I've seen with immobilizer settings and the fact that the -09s on have different heads and cams- if anyone wants to try it, or at least look at it I can forward it on.

Hey G,

I'd be glad to step into the learning process here and give this a whirl! Check your PM's for my email address...
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Old 11-11-2010, 04:35 AM   #71
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Do you have to do the mythical "cold engine, 15 min idle trick" after loading a new map?

ÖÖ. screwed with this post 11-12-2010 at 10:43 AM
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Old 11-11-2010, 07:12 PM   #72
cyborg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grinns
I tried them both tonight. Tune Ecu is pretty sweet. It works with the cable I got for tune boy too.

Here are some notes I noticed:
  1. map files are about half the size in TuneEcu when saved from ECU (compared to tuneboy maps)
  2. The map UI on TuneEcu is sweet, way better than tune boy.
  3. Both work on Win7 64bit
  4. Can't really do any "tests" in either of them. Mostly it appears its reading sensor data, which is limited in both. Still pretty good though.
I am sure head2wind has better opinions than me, since I bought the tuneboy cable from him. I have not tried to load a map through TuneECU. I only saved my current map.

grinns, which bike were you able to get the ECU tune from? On KTM990 Tuneboy can only write maps to the ECU but cannot read and save maps that are already on the ECU. Is TuneECU able to do that (read/save from ECU) on the KTM990?
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Old 11-11-2010, 07:41 PM   #73
Dusty
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cyborg....

From what I've read on the superduke forum and the tuneECU site is yes you can save the map loaded on the ECU.

That is what one of the many nice features of the software.

It sure would like to have the original 07 map that came loaded on my bike, the fuel range was a bit better than the updated stock map i have now.

I will save mine and send it to the tuneECU site when i get my cable. It sure would be nice to see a few more maps for the Adventures there so a person could at least compare them.

While out riding the other day i was thinking about what i would like in a map for my bike would be....

Tuned for fuel economy at say 20 percent throttle the 4-5000 rpm range.
With a smooth transition from closed to 20 percent throttle.

Got one laying around...
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Old 11-12-2010, 12:00 AM   #74
grinns
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyborg
grinns, which bike were you able to get the ECU tune from? On KTM990 Tuneboy can only write maps to the ECU but cannot read and save maps that are already on the ECU. Is TuneECU able to do that (read/save from ECU) on the KTM990?
TuneECU can. If you want to stop by and see fri, or saturday yell. I am putting new 02 sensors in the bike. Found one bad after I got this setup.
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Old 11-12-2010, 09:11 AM   #75
cyborg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grinns
TuneECU can. If you want to stop by and see fri, or saturday yell. I am putting new 02 sensors in the bike. Found one bad after I got this setup.
Sounds great! You have PM
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