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Old 06-04-2011, 08:12 AM   #886
Sapling
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ok.... After getting my head around this a bit more on the L-F switch and how that works...

Here is another basic quesiton... If we really need to adjust the L map, how do you know which value to adjust since they are stated in hPa?? Does the data logger you guys are using show hPa?


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Sapling screwed with this post 06-04-2011 at 08:18 AM
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Old 06-04-2011, 10:09 AM   #887
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Originally Posted by cyborg View Post
Must still be snowing hard up there Jeff, since you're fussing with tuning!

Still love those SD cams on my 990. Sapling and I have been talking at the local MAG and he's thinking about them too...

I got a break today. It's only raining! Last year I was riding in April. Only road three times so far this year. I am so sick of this weather I am ready to load up my bikes and hit the road to somewhere. I need about five guys that need their bike tuned to pay me so the Mrs will let me go.
Anyways, got TuneEcu working easy on my bike. Pulled my current map. Going to Sync the TB's, hook-up the data logging and finally install the Turn tech battery this week-end. Since I can't ride(I'm not half as tough as you guys in Wa) I called to make an appt. on the dyno.


Quote:
If we really need to adjust the L map, how do you know which value to adjust since they are stated in hPa??
Ah, the $1,000.00 question. That map I do on the dyno where I can keep the laptop plugged in.
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Old 06-04-2011, 10:12 AM   #888
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So, I see two approaches developing:

1- Adjust the F-L switch so that we are basically running on the F maps anytime we're off idle; this has the advantage of making it easier to identify where to make changes to the map. With a marked throttle tube so you can get close to the TPS% and your tach, you should be able to get pretty close; at least as close as you might with a carb when you choose to adjust or change the needles, pilot screw, or main jets. Not sure uf there's a downside to essentially ignoring the L maps off idle, but I'm sure someone will point it out to me if there is one.

2- Leave the F-L switch alone and tune the L map and/or the F maps as appropriate per throttle position and MAP value. Disadvantage here is added difficulty in determining where to adjust which map. Advantages may depend on whether or not there is an actual disadvantage to setting the F-L switch in such a manner that you're essentially running on the F map anytime you're off idle.

I've gotten as far as selecting a map that annoys me the least in its original form, adjusted the throttle cables and marked the throttle for TPS% using tuneEcu, and have set the F-L map per earlier instructions at 10,10,10,0,0,0,0,0. Oh, and turned off the O2 sensors.

This should mean that the ECU is using the F map above 1450 rpm at all tps settings, and that it won't use the closed loop mode to screw with any changes that I make to those maps. I need to make the marks on the throttle a little clearer but it's clear that the worst throttle snatch issues are at very small throttle settings; this is cool because it's stuff that I would try to tune out with the fuel screw on a carbed bike. This makes me a lot more comfortable messing with the fuel maps since I've never blown up a bike by messing with the fuel screw so I feel pretty safe learning in this region...

I've found that the all years R map for akrapovich with the O2s turned off actually comes pretty close to solving the problem for me, but initial rides say that fuel consumption is pretty high. My tentative plan at this point is to play with the small throttle settings on this map and then cut and paste the whole low end into the stock R map and see what happens. I'll have to set the F-L switch, etc to match, but I'm curious to see what happens....

Steve
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Old 06-04-2011, 10:16 AM   #889
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Well, hell, I'd pay ya, but it's blowin' and raining here; supposed to snow later.

The weather this year sucks. Everyone at work is blaming me for buying that "damn orange bike" and bringing in the rotten weather...

I'm getting a few short rides in, but it's not making it any easier to tuen the bike. Maybe the rain and snow is why I'm having issues at smaller throttle openings

I gotta run to Redding for my work on Monday; gonna make that one around 300 miles rain or shine just on general principles.

Steve

Quote:
Originally Posted by tahoeacr View Post
I got a break today. It's only raining! Last year I was riding in April. Only road three times so far this year. I am so sick of this weather I am ready to load up my bikes and hit the road to somewhere. I need about five guys that need their bike tuned to pay me so the Mrs will let me go.
Anyways, got TuneEcu working easy on my bike. Pulled my current map. Going to Sync the TB's, hook-up the data logging and finally install the Turn tech battery this week-end. Since I can't ride(I'm not half as tough as you guys in Wa) I called to make an appt. on the dyno.




Ah, the $1,000.00 question. That map I do on the dyno where I can keep the laptop plugged in.
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Old 06-04-2011, 02:15 PM   #890
Sapling
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alleycatdad View Post
and have set the F-L map per earlier instructions at 10,10,10,0,0,0,0,0. Oh, and turned off the O2 sensors.

Did I miss this in this thread somewhere?? I am rereading from page one... back in a bit....
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Old 06-04-2011, 05:10 PM   #891
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapling View Post
Did I miss this in this thread somewhere?? I am rereading from page one... back in a bit....
Not specifically. There's some discussion of setting it to 12,12,10,5,5,5,5 or some such on this thread; I picked the above up elsewhere....sorry. The point as presented is valid, though, that if you set the F-L switch in a manner that results in using only the F map off-idle, then that's the only map you need to tune.

S
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Old 06-05-2011, 01:42 AM   #892
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Hi ! I've follow all of this thread and i've too search about this jeark problem..

I've try to remove O, not a miracle

I've try to only ride with F map and remove totally the switch F/L... not bad aroud 4000 but not the solution around 1% trottle !

I've seen on L maps that MAP sensor can jump from 300hpa to 800hpa on the same trottle position and in 1/10second !!

So i've try to add an restrictor (there is a 1mm restrictor in our stock ADV) around 0,7mm in MAP hole... not the solution!!! there's not so many pressure...

Is there an easy solution to remove the jeark trottle between 0% and 1% ? Is there an area to share our perso MAP?


I become sick

Very thanks for all of your reflection about that and for this super thread !!

PS: sorry for my bad english ...
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Old 06-05-2011, 08:18 AM   #893
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by tahoeacr View Post
Time to do some tuning...try taking out 3% at 3,200, 2% at 3,400 and 1% at 3,500. Then maybe 1% from 4,800 to 5,800 and see how it looks after that....
Thanks for the tips...I hope to get out this afternoon to see how it changed things.

I assume the front cylinder is F1?

Those exact RPMs are not in the program so I changed as follows:

-3% 3250 80-100 TPS
-1% 3500 80-100 TPS
-1% 5000-6000 80-100 TPS

Should I just stick to 100% TPS?
One other question, will I need to do the 15 minute reset?
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Old 06-05-2011, 12:09 PM   #894
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michhub View Post
Thanks for the tips...I hope to get out this afternoon to see how it changed things.

I assume the front cylinder is F1?

Those exact RPMs are not in the program so I changed as follows:

-3% 3250 80-100 TPS
-1% 3500 80-100 TPS
-1% 5000-6000 80-100 TPS

Should I just stick to 100% TPS?
One other question, will I need to do the 15 minute reset?
I thought you could change the rpm range. Must have been thinking about my Husaberg keihin software. Don't change 80%. Playback your data log. When you hit play and the curser goes across, watch at 18 seconds where the TPS dips. Might be 80% right there. TPS calibration on my bike was 3.82v/100% and 3.31v/80%. KTM uses F1 as the rear cylinder.
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Old 06-05-2011, 08:58 PM   #895
Sapling
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How fast should the HPa/map sensors react?

I have one (top one on the test page that seams fairly active... the bottom one seams to be fairly sluggish to react and doesn't change much.

I can sync them at idle and the top one bounces around say 2-4 each direction but the bottom one is fairly consistent and doesn't change much.

Which one is the front and which is the rear?

When I rev it up to say 3000 RPM the bottom one seams lazy and they do not stay in sink....

Do I have a bad Map sensor??
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Old 06-05-2011, 10:39 PM   #896
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As far as rideability is the main target

There are some secondary butterflies on the market by http://www.motohooliganperformance.com/
they have an oval shape, essentially leaving some space for intake flow even when completely "closed". We could induce a small angle opening on the butterflies when throttle is closed, to simulate this aftermarket butterfly shape. A friend who has these butterflies installed has a big improvement on the jerkiness behaviour.
My understanding is the operation of secondary butterflies closing at low throttle openings and TPS and rpm is the culprit as far as rideability is concerned.
Cheers.
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Old 06-06-2011, 06:25 AM   #897
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Originally Posted by gefr View Post
There are some secondary butterflies on the market by http://www.motohooliganperformance.com/
they have an oval shape, essentially leaving some space for intake flow even when completely "closed". We could induce a small angle opening on the butterflies when throttle is closed, to simulate this aftermarket butterfly shape. A friend who has these butterflies installed has a big improvement on the jerkiness behaviour.
My understanding is the operation of secondary butterflies closing at low throttle openings and TPS and rpm is the culprit as far as rideability is concerned.
Cheers.
I've been running the motohooligan NFL football shaped butterflies for a while. I'm still fiddling with my fueling, but I am picky and border on being a perfectionist...

Here are the 'flies:
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Old 06-06-2011, 07:34 AM   #898
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapling View Post
How fast should the HPa/map sensors react?

I have one (top one on the test page that seams fairly active... the bottom one seams to be fairly sluggish to react and doesn't change much.

I can sync them at idle and the top one bounces around say 2-4 each direction but the bottom one is fairly consistent and doesn't change much.

Which one is the front and which is the rear?
When I rev it up to say 3000 RPM the bottom one seams lazy and they do not stay in sink....

Do I have a bad Map sensor??
Possibly a partially plugged MAP sensor or leaky vacuum line to that sensor.
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Old 06-06-2011, 10:38 AM   #899
Sapling
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Originally Posted by cyborg View Post
Possibly a partially plugged MAP sensor or leaky vacuum line to that sensor.

Maybe if I tried to SYNC them... and removed them from the "sink" they might work better....
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Old 06-06-2011, 12:47 PM   #900
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Hello,
Can someone say me what were the prefer AFR value to read on a wide band?

I'll mount an LC1 on the front cylinder (F2), turn the transition OFF for tune ( only F maps) end O OFF.

I'll compare real values to this excel sheet (i need your help for the optimals values) and put a correction % for the two F maps.

Then make a little transition F/L and use O sensors to have a better fueling...

What do you think about this?

The optimal values are for the lowest cunsom, best torque en horsepower...

Very thanks for your help and ideas !


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