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Old 08-08-2012, 06:09 AM   #1561
Two Plugs OP
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It wasn't love at first sight here as well, as you might remember... Despite that, every now and then I'm allowed to use a CT from my Honda agent which is equipped with the larger touringscreen (a must-have accesoiry!) and even with my 6,8 ft I'm more and more enthusiast about the bike.

Esspecially when riding together with a mate who owns a new Super Tenere (also one of my favorites): but the engine (mechanical) noice produced by the Yamaha's dry-sump twin is just so overwelming when both bikes ride up together...

I still haven't tested the Tiger 1200 Adventure... But honnestly... I don't think that this bike could add anything extra in regards to the finishing touch / build quality of the Honda... despite its clever features.
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Old 08-08-2012, 06:17 AM   #1562
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Originally Posted by twinrider View Post
I'm amazed at Honda's total failure to create any buzz around this bike. I read far more about the Super Tenere and Explorer.
Check the numbers of new registered bikes in Germany for June 2012.In Germany BMW has advantage, but the only big engine bikes are the R12GS, which most people use for touring bike, the ultra sport S1000RR and the "image" HD. I guess the big money in EU(probably for ASIAPAC and LATAM) is in small/medium engine bikes and scooters.



1 BMW R 1200 GS 650
2 Kawasaki ER-6n/f 296
3 Honda NC700S 269
4 BMW S 1000 RR 235
5 Honda NC700X 205
6 KTM 690 Duke 203
7 BMW F 800 R 179
8 BMW F 800 GS 164
9 BMW R 1200 R 160
10Harley-Davidson XL1200X 157
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Old 08-08-2012, 06:46 AM   #1563
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Perception of the product is poor here in the UK. I don't think the VFR 1200 did it any favours. I have no doubt that when the GS Wethead is launched, it'll sell like hotcakes, despite BMW's recent quality shortcomings.
However, i look at Honda's bike and car line up, and i see a company, like Sony who used to be the best in class at everything they did, but who now are also rans.
When i test rode the KTM SM T at the start of the year i just wondered why Honda couldn't make something like it. With their resources it would be easy.
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Old 08-08-2012, 06:57 AM   #1564
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Honda Japan is selling a "special" reimport version in their dealerships (has an all show no go Mugen-branded muffler) for 1.8 yen million OTD. But despite the high price they don't see the wisdom of having even offering one demo bike so while I could sit on it and hear the motor run, I couldn't try it. I have no doubt the motor would be awesome but the styling seemed a bit uninspiring. Sitting on the bike, it felt very similar to my TDM900, a decade old design. I think Honda would have been better off taking more cues from the Africa Twin and coming up with something closer to the Super Tenere.
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Old 08-08-2012, 07:57 AM   #1565
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Originally Posted by twinrider View Post
I'm amazed at Honda's total failure to create any buzz around this bike. I read far more about the Super Tenere and Explorer.
I'd think the fact Honda isn't importing it to NA would have a lot to do with this. There is no point in creating buzz about something you don't have for sale.

- Mark
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Old 08-08-2012, 08:27 AM   #1566
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I'd think the fact Honda isn't importing it to NA would have a lot to do with this. There is no point in creating buzz about something you don't have for sale.

- Mark
No surprise about the silence in NA but I'm referring to Europe and Oz where the bike has been released.
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Old 08-08-2012, 11:53 AM   #1567
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When you look at what is selling and where, i guess a few thousand bikes sold to an elderly market (Europe / NA / Oz) really doesn't amount to much compared to the massive Asian markets. That's a pie that everyone wants a slice of.
I'll play it cool. A couple of years down the line i reckon i'll be able to pick one up cheap.
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Old 08-08-2012, 08:42 PM   #1568
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Originally Posted by twinrider View Post
No surprise about the silence in NA but I'm referring to Europe and Oz where the bike has been released.
Well, I'm not in Europe or Oz so I don't know what "buzz" is happening there. As for this forum, it's definitely international, but still pretty US centric.

- Mark
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Old 08-08-2012, 11:15 PM   #1569
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What Honda needs, is a new image builder. Like the Africa Twin. Or the MK1 VFR.
The current line shows quality products without doubt, but its lack on charisma is deadly.

Has been point of discussion here and at (Honda-) Forums all over the World. People even have discussed it with the guys at the Honda R&D HQ's

But as long as Honda's prime economical focus lies at selling huge quantities of low capacity bikes in the (far) east and developing markets like Brazil and the African Continent, the developement of such an 'image builder' stays no more or less than A Dream. What's in a name.

Unfortunately for us - but the Western custommer isn't interesting anymore.

The only 'wind of changes' will be happen, if the current line of designers and marketing people are replaced by people who do listen to their custommers.
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Old 08-08-2012, 11:44 PM   #1570
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Originally Posted by Two Plugs View Post

The only 'wind of changes' will be happen, if the current line of designers and marketing people are replaced by people who do listen to their custommers.
Um.... I don't know whether this is good or bad, I suppose it depends on your point of view...
But I saw that the NC700S and X werer doing pretty well in the German marketplace.
[edit] yeah a few posts back Doh!

Does this mean that Honda will be looking with interest at very economical and practical bikes from now on?
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GrahamD screwed with this post 08-09-2012 at 04:41 AM
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Old 08-09-2012, 03:54 AM   #1571
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twinrider View Post
Honda Japan is selling a "special" reimport version in their dealerships (has an all show no go Mugen-branded muffler) for 1.8 yen million OTD. But despite the high price they don't see the wisdom of having even offering one demo bike so while I could sit on it and hear the motor run, I couldn't try it. I have no doubt the motor would be awesome but the styling seemed a bit uninspiring. Sitting on the bike, it felt very similar to my TDM900, a decade old design. I think Honda would have been better off taking more cues from the Africa Twin and coming up with something closer to the Super Tenere.
TW, I have a TDM (2009) and took a Crosstourer for a test ride yesterday. To sum it up, I was disappointed. I would much prefer my TDM although an extra 20hp would be nice. Honda have indeed missed an opportunity to do something really clever.
Graeme
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Old 08-09-2012, 04:45 AM   #1572
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TW, I have a TDM (2009) and took a Crosstourer for a test ride yesterday. To sum it up, I was disappointed. I would much prefer my TDM although an extra 20hp would be nice. Honda have indeed missed an opportunity to do something really clever.
Graeme
Damn.

Not enough Character? Doesn't move the soul?

Care to elaborate?

The S10 is like a TDM with 20 more HP did you know?

Actually it's more like a big lanky got it all together big brother who also works out.

I like the TDM motor. The one I rode was really smooooth.
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Old 08-09-2012, 05:50 AM   #1573
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After having the S10 remapped it's now got as much motor as i'll ever need. The comment about the TDM is a good one. That was a bike i seriously missed when i sold it. Makes me wonder how it'd feel with a similar remap..
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Old 08-09-2012, 12:40 PM   #1574
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Laugh

Quote:
Originally Posted by twinrider View Post
I'm amazed at Honda's total failure to create any buzz around this bike. I read far more about the Super Tenere and Explorer.
And a pebble drops into a pond......

http://www.hondamc2013.com/2012/08/t...credible-film/

Looked like fun. I would have been more impressed if they had picked my name out of the hat for the tour though
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Old 08-10-2012, 05:49 AM   #1575
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Originally Posted by GrahamD View Post
Damn.

Not enough Character? Doesn't move the soul?

Care to elaborate?

The S10 is like a TDM with 20 more HP did you know?

Actually it's more like a big lanky got it all together big brother who also works out.

I like the TDM motor. The one I rode was really smooooth.
Hi Graham,
Happy to elaborate but it going to be lengthy. TDM is an interesting bike, I would absolutely buy another but as it has been unchanged since 2002 it should have an upgrade but not a major change.
Standard they are very quiet and a little strangled, aftermarket pipe (Beowulf mine) and K&N do the job, a very nice sounding, very torquey, good handling and braking package at 221kg wet. Similar improvement to S10 according to Mathiesons report in AMCN ages ago when they had their long termer. But 50kg heavier.
The S10 is very much an upgrade of the TDM but going back to its more dirt oriented roots. Ex TDM riders say it is a “TDM on steroids” and that was enough for me to decide on one. Was going to be this year but with the current model now 2 years old I was waiting for a “new” model. The crosstourer was announced and I dismissed it as being too road oriented but over time I realised that I didn’t want to take my valuable and well cared for “roadbike” too much on the dirt anyway. I have a DRZ for that. The crosstourer made more and more sense although it is heavy but so is the S10. The Nuda has come along as well and its what the TDM could be! I could still go that way but would like to stay Japanese for reasons that would be disputed by many but have lots to do with reliability over time and quality. The multistrada is another option as its fantastic by all accounts but there is that Ducati reliability thing and a factory that is happy to use its customers as a research and development team looses points with me. Its fairly sorted now though. Bit expensive although light!
Dealer has had S10 on floor for over a year but its not a demo. Have sat on it a lot, have trouble with its “transformer” looks but getting more used to it. The crosstourer came a month or two ago and I saw it in the crate and then on the floor. Liked the look, you can see bits of Ducati and others in design and that’s fair enough I suppose. This one was registered for demo just the other week and so I made a date for a testride. Wed just gone. Dropped the TDM at the back for a new tyre and got on the crosstourer out the front. Started it and it sounds crap but I knew that from youtube etc. Rolled it off gutter and weight is obvious. Get underway and typical Honda, easy to ride. Through town and throttle is worse on/off than TDM. In low gears, trying to hold even throttle is snatchy, I thought injection was sorted in 2012!
Out of town and overtaking a group of vehicles shows the power which is impressive. Less impressive, for inexperienced at new bikes me, is the way the ride by wire and\or traction control takes over and wont allow the throttle to open any faster than it says it should, very noticeable at lower speeds/ gears while ore a “dulling” at higher. A bit further and off onto a more backroad.
Stop and turn traction control off but I cant see where this is indicated on dash but try a wheelie to see and it does one with the button pushed and wont when its pushed the other way so that must be off------right, but now it must be just ride by wire that stops the throttle opening when I twist the grip hard? Suppose you get used to it and its for my own good I’m sure and it does get along really quick----
Handling is great for sure, its surefooted and tackles the bends with confidence and much faster than I would have thought but it seems to be right at home at 130-140 and that might not be the best speed to travel at. The weight might be well disguised but I could feel it. The standard screen is crap but then so is the TDM. The brakes are good for sure but heavy compared to the TDM. The hydraulic clutch is heavy compared to TDM.
The levers are at wrong angle and gear lever is at wrong height but no criticism here as that is adjustable but the gearbox was not the most pleasant to use, it was vague, I don’t think that’s a “new” box thing? On one set of ripples the back suspension was clearly over whelmed by the weight of the shaft drive. I recognised it as the same feeling I get on my XLV750 on ripples.
Handle bars are too high. It was about a 50km ride and the bike is very nice, no question, but I was disappointed as it just doesn’t seem to be “together”. Hard to describe but a bit like the styling which has taken the bits needed to compete in this segment and put them together but it might not be an entirely happy marriage??----
Getting straight back on the TDM was going to be interesting. Its so low at the front in comparison and of course there is nothing like the same power BUT the torque is not a lot different and the pulse of engine at 50kmh in 5th as I rode out of town just made me smile. The new Angel on the front felt pretty good too as I slipped into the hills, the brakes are actually much better, feels light---------------------
Cheers Graeme
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