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Old 11-09-2010, 12:17 AM   #196
Two Plugs OP
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Touring versus Adventure?

Quote:
Originally Posted by paul thompson
I asked a question on the VFR UK site about the new Pan replacement which all the magazines had tipped for a 2011 release. One inmate said the current gossip has the Crosstourer replacing it. Kind of makes sense. No point having 2 expensive bikes vying for custom in the touring sector.
I wouldn’t be that sure.

A 'adventure' bike concept appeals to a whole different customer as an touringbike. And looking at - for example - BMW's new K1600 (which I see as an very promising concept) I think that we will see an VFR- related touringbike within the next 2 years. Honda has an name to keep up in the touring section with bikes like the Pan European (ST1300), Goldwing and the little 700 Deauville.

That's something you can't replace with an GT (like the VFR1200) or an Adventurer (Cross Tourer).

According to the information I have, the new 'ST' was scheduled for this years EICMA, the 'CT' for next year. It seems they (Honda) simply reshuffled some cards...
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Old 11-09-2010, 06:25 AM   #197
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..unless it's heading for the NEC show over here next month. I can't believe Honda would ignore the road touring market, especially with the amount of sales that the emergency services generate.
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Old 11-09-2010, 09:18 AM   #198
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automatic transmission is a no go. I dont care for all the "latest greatest " electronic traction control bullshit either. ditto for ABS....all just heavy, complex, unnecessary bullshit

Give me a good solid bike that can be manually operated by a human and I am happy. Hell, I am so old school, I will even ride a bike with carburators....can you beleive that??
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Old 11-09-2010, 10:49 AM   #199
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I'm not sure why anyone would buy it over an ST1300 except that it is the Hummer of touring and you can pretend to play "Quien es mas macho" without ever having to leave the pavement.

What is sad is the ST1300 engine needs to find its way into a naked boulevard cruiser to compete with the BMW Roadsters. This engine is too pretty to cover up.


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Old 11-09-2010, 10:52 AM   #200
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The St13 is still in Honda's line up for the near future. It was seen at the Milan show.
Have to agree - that's one handsome power unit.
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Old 11-09-2010, 11:03 AM   #201
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Not exactly what I was thinking, but still, it's nice to see the ingenuity -


John Ashman screwed with this post 11-09-2010 at 11:16 AM
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Old 11-09-2010, 11:22 AM   #202
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I remember the days when Honda was the innovator.
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Old 11-09-2010, 11:30 AM   #203
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Yer really old! ^
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Old 11-09-2010, 12:24 PM   #204
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I doubt Honda is planning on replacing the ST13 with the CrossTourer. All throughout the process, Honda has been saying they plan to build a family of bikes around the 1200cc V4 platform. So the VFR1200F, CrossTourer, and some kind of VFR1200T touring bike to replace the ST13 makes complete sense. Honda has seen what BMW has been doing with the R1200GS and R1200RT and will likely emulate this.

I still think the VFR1200T will be THE bike to take advantage of the strengths of this new VFR platform. Of course, I doubt Yamaha and Kawasaki are going to stand still the FJR and C14. And there's also the question of what BMW is going to do in the big sport-touring category. I think the plan right now is to drop the K13GT for the K16GT and just leave the R12RT in this space, but there is going to be a pretty big gap between the R12RT and the K16GT. A gap that the VFR1200T might be positioned to fill nicely.

- Mark
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Old 11-09-2010, 02:11 PM   #205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markjenn
and will likely emulate this.
Sadly, that seems about all they have left.
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Old 11-09-2010, 11:29 PM   #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whipit1k
automatic transmission is a no go. I dont care for all the "latest greatest " electronic traction control bullshit either. ditto for ABS....all just heavy, complex, unnecessary bullshit

Give me a good solid bike that can be manually operated by a human and I am happy. Hell, I am so old school, I will even ride a bike with carburators....can you beleive that??
Agree on the gearbox thing, I don't about ABS. But... allow me to explain, because till 10 years ago I was just as 'Old School' like you, Whipit1k...

On my very first Varadero (model 1998) ABS wasn't available. In the summer of 1999 (August) I crashed in the back of a car. My brother, riding an ST1100 with ABS, was riding right beside me. But he could avoid the impact and steer around the vehicle.

Cause of the accident: first rain in months and oil on the tarmac. Yeh, I know. Should have kept some distance (I'm to blame too) but fact remains that I slided in to the car, steering fully to the left side, but the bike went only one direction: Straight ahead, with both wheels locked. Speeding? Nope. only 30 miles / hour... Where my brother could avoid it.

The ABS / Combined brakes which are these days common on most Japanese / European bikes are very sophisticated and good engineered. From time to time I take my 283 kg heavy Varadero up on gravel - I never found the presence of combined brakes and ABS as an obstacle.

Quoting a test rate between the major big trail bikes, two years ago, in one of Europe's leading motorcycle magazines MOTORRAD:

"The Varadero is also equipped with ABS. Unlike the KTM and the BMW it can't be switched off though. But why would you? There is no 2nd system which performs that accurate without interfering with the fun and pleasure of riding!"
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Old 11-10-2010, 12:24 AM   #207
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No ABS on my dero

The Varaderos sold in NZ do not come with ABS, but I must say I do like the linked braking. I've never ridden a bike before with this facility and I adjusted to it very quickly. It's not to everyone's liking, but it is to mine.
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Old 11-10-2010, 01:02 PM   #208
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Is there any particular reason why the sole XTourer thread is in Beasts? The utility of an 800cc dual-purpose bikes on various types of dirt can be - and is - endlessly debated here. XRunner, Mini-Tiger, etc.

The 1050 Tiger, arguably a so-so/decent dirt bike, is usually discussed in Road Warriors. the 800cc mini-Tiger and XRunner are there, too.

I would respectfully argue that the XTourer likely won't be as successful as the 1050 Tiger in the dirt. Not that I can prove this point yet - but it can't be demonstrably proven wrong yet, either. Until we get some demo rides, it's all speculation.

The XTourer is a closer relative to [and shares parts with] the VFR1200f, which clearly doesn't belong here. Also, I suspect that, for the vast majority of potential 1200cc XTourer buyers, dirt won't necessarily be the bikes' primary use - street riding in all of it's various forms, will much more likely be it's main use.

Mods: thoughts?

Thanks -

PH
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Old 11-10-2010, 01:47 PM   #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legion
What you need is some bold new graphics.
GRAPHICS......who the hell cares about graphics. Tell me....how do graphics make a motorcycle a better all around bike...........graphics
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Old 11-10-2010, 01:50 PM   #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PizzaHog
Is there any particular reason why the sole XTourer thread is in Beasts?
This is just a concept bike that may or may not reach production and if it does, it won't likely be available until 2013. So seems a little premature to be worrying about whether it is properly categorized. My guess is this thread will get pretty quiet in a week or three.

- Mark
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