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Old 11-25-2010, 10:53 AM   #286
craigrevo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eakins
i doubt it. i'm sure that bike is basicly done and it's very obvious all honda is doing these days is play catchup with bmw and copy what they do.
What bikes did they copy off BMW then?
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Old 11-25-2010, 12:56 PM   #287
GrahamD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigrevo
What bikes did they copy off BMW then?
Find a Honda model that breaks down a lot, ---- that's the one!!
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Old 11-25-2010, 01:37 PM   #288
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Old 11-25-2010, 03:25 PM   #289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigrevo
All nice suggestions, but not very realistic. All those things would need to be paid for by the customer. It would cost gold wing money if it had all that.
Ill be happy with a strong reliable bike that looks good, eats miles and I can hustle off road.
I agree, I don't want another off-road Gold Wing.....I already have a 1200GS for that. I do like your points but don't necessarily agree that it can't be done. I think it can be done, reasonably and economically! In the end I think we want basically the same bike and more importantly, WANT HONDA TO BUILD THE BLOODY THING!

Keep the discussion going, it's good for Honda, good for choice and good for competition!! We all win!!
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Old 11-25-2010, 09:19 PM   #290
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So, let me see if I'm getting this correct:
  • The XTourer is going to be heavy, have ABS, SSSA, shaft-drive and probably have a form of non-standard tranny available.
  • Many of the dirt-riders in this forum are complaining about all of the above. As I have zero experience in the dirt, I'll take their complaints as legit.
  • The weight, size, tranny and ABS are perfect for a "dual-sport" [AKA a non-crotch-rocket with power and comfort] that can do things on the slab very well.
  • Many non-dirt riders debate weight vs. stability [as in cross winds] for slab riding. Lighter = more flickable [useful in urban areas and in traffic]. Heavier = more planted [better for higher speeds, cross-winds, able to handle larger windshields].
  • Dirt riders tend to like lighter bikes with tires of varying diameter, depending on what surface they ride on. Non-dirt riders worry about how many miles they can get out of their street-standard [19"?] tires vs. how well they stick to the road.
  • Many daily commuters demand, or at least tolerate, ABS brakes. Dirt riders...not so much.
It'll be a "beast" - I think we can all accept that. IMO, it'll be a better Road Warrior for the reasons listed above.

Like it or not in the dirt, and setting aside it's apparent [to some, not to me] dirt orientation, this looks like a great urban/slab bike for us more....um...mature riders. It certainly seems to meet almost all of my needs, as the only times my bike[s] will ever see the dirt are on the way to Bodie [ghost town here in CA] or when Caltrans hasn't gotten around to clearing the gutters around the freeway after a storm.

I'm looking forward to a comparison between the BMW, Tiger 1050/1200, XTourer and Yamaha's entry.
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Old 11-26-2010, 01:35 AM   #291
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@ PizzaHog... you do mention some valid points, and many of them have been discussed in the Dutch Transalpclub (800 members, for both XLV750R, Transalp 600, 650, 700, Africa Twin 650/750 and Varadero 1000). Please allow me to make some remarks in your list (added in red):
  • The XTourer is going to be heavy, have ABS, SSSA, shaft-drive and probably have a form of non-standard tranny available.
  • The current big trail bikes aren't featherweights either... The new S10 puts 276 kg on the scale, the Varadero ABS 283 and the BMW R1200GS(A) isn't that less heavy either despite what BMW want's us to beleive...
  • Many of the dirt-riders in this forum are complaining about all of the above. As I have zero experience in the dirt, I'll take their complaints as legit.
  • I guess the current 'heavy-weight' big trail bike class isn't ment or designed for dirt riding. It isn't a dirt bike. But a LC8, Africa Twin, Super10 750 or Gagiva 900i Elephant are no dirtbikes either. The Germans have I think the most suitable name for these bikes: "Reisendure" (I guess 'Traveltrailbike' would be the most suitable translation in English). Wanna go dirty? Get an LC4, CR400, etc
  • The weight, size, tranny and ABS are perfect for a "dual-sport" [AKA a non-crotch-rocket with power and comfort] that can do things on the slab very well.
  • See above. Practicaly these bikes are the two-wheel versions of SUV's: SUM (Sports Utility Bike) although with SUV's I never understoot the word 'Sport'...
  • Many non-dirt riders debate weight vs. stability [as in cross winds] for slab riding. Lighter = more flickable [useful in urban areas and in traffic]. Heavier = more planted [better for higher speeds, cross-winds, able to handle larger windshields].
  • Any big trail bike (lets' call them from now Traveltrailbikes!) are very much 'flickable' (love that word!). Even with an 'old school' Varadero you can beat the H* out of any sportsbike when the going goes though: Try the Stelvio Pass in Italy, or the Trollstiggen in Norway, or Cheapman's peak in South Africa, or the Transfarrangas in Romania. CU in my next dustcloud! Riding in heavy traffic (-jam) is so rewarding on a bike like these... Where you will have an multiple wrist fracture on a sports bike...
  • Dirt riders tend to like lighter bikes with tires of varying diameter, depending on what surface they ride on. Non-dirt riders worry about how many miles they can get out of their street-standard [19"?] tires vs. how well they stick to the road.
  • No argue with that...
  • Many daily commuters demand, or at least tolerate, ABS brakes. Dirt riders...not so much.
  • Unfortunately new EU laws are more or less 'dictating' any new motorcycle ment for the EU market to be equipped with a form of combined ABS brakes. However, the manufacturer is intitled to add an 'switchoffable' ABS system like f.e. KTM and BMW are doing.
Yes, I also agree that it will be a bike for 'mature' riders (I guess the more fortuned riders would cover better)...
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Old 11-26-2010, 04:43 PM   #292
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Goldwings mentioned in this thread. I had one; It overheated (temp gauge to red) and leaked from the rear drive. CD changer failed, rattling plastic, broken turn signal mounts etc etc; Some had their frames crack. Honda was forced by the feds to deal with it. Honda is not the same company since Sochiro passed. I sent Honda corporate a letter. They called to say they received it. The man I spoke to admitted the Goldwing has been trouble prone...He also admitted the CBR1000RR has had issues. I have friends who ride the St1300 with instability problems. Yet they keep selling them. Honda has been running on reputation. Yamaha is a better manufacturer. Heck, the Harley I replaced my Turdwing with has been flawless. My current 'busa doesn't burn oil like the CBR. I would wait a couple of years before considering any Honda. Since I have been burned by them, I still wouldn't buy....At least then you might know you're not buying more junk like the wing.
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Old 11-26-2010, 05:00 PM   #293
GrahamD
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This seems like a pretty similar pattern with many Manufacturers.

http://www.adizes.com/corporate_lifecycle.html

Cheers
Graham
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Old 11-27-2010, 12:09 AM   #294
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Honda reliability

Honda has been a part of my life for some time I started with the xr80 xr100 xl250 fourtraxs quad for work Trans ALP CB400 Z50R CBR900RR VFR800 VTEC CT90 CT110 and the wife has an Aero 80 scooter. I only had one problem with a Honda my VTEC VFR had a crap ground wire left me stranded too many times ( recall I believe) still loved that bike though just too tech. I would go back to Honda if they could build a bike as bomb proof as the CBR 900 or Trail 110 Im keeping my Triumph Scram its just easy to live with no frills twist and go anolog get you there with less plastic. I will allways have a Honda when cash is available may be Ridgeline next I dont know if today was the day Yamaha S10 or Triumph Adventure for sure Triumph has a pulse Honda is a robot Honda please prove me wrong.
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Old 11-27-2010, 07:52 AM   #295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NONAME13
Honda has been a part of my life for some time I started with the xr80 xr100 xl250 fourtraxs quad for work Trans ALP CB400 Z50R CBR900RR VFR800 VTEC CT90 CT110 and the wife has an Aero 80 scooter. I only had one problem with a Honda my VTEC VFR had a crap ground wire left me stranded too many times ( recall I believe) still loved that bike though just too tech. I would go back to Honda if they could build a bike as bomb proof as the CBR 900 or Trail 110 Im keeping my Triumph Scram its just easy to live with no frills twist and go anolog get you there with less plastic. I will allways have a Honda when cash is available may be Ridgeline next I dont know if today was the day Yamaha S10 or Triumph Adventure for sure Triumph has a pulse Honda is a robot Honda please prove me wrong.
Do some research on the Ridgeline. Owned an Odyssey for 7 years, same platform as the Ridgeline. Went through two trannies in that time, many owners had 3 done. Honda was good to deal with in that they replaced the tranny just out of warranty but from all I could find out they just kept replacing the failed transmissions with the same units, so you knew it was only a matter of time before the replacement failed. Honda motors are great, smooth, powerful, reliable but just like my CBF, I wouldn't go near a "large" platform Honda tranny again: Odyssey, Ridgeline, Pilot.
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Old 11-27-2010, 08:45 AM   #296
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bross
Do some research on the Ridgeline. Owned an Odyssey for 7 years, same platform as the Ridgeline. Went through two trannies in that time, many owners had 3 done. Honda was good to deal with in that they replaced the tranny just out of warranty but from all I could find out they just kept replacing the failed transmissions with the same units, so you knew it was only a matter of time before the replacement failed. Honda motors are great, smooth, powerful, reliable but just like my CBF, I wouldn't go near a "large" platform Honda tranny again: Odyssey, Ridgeline, Pilot.
I have friends with the SAME ISSUES!! I have one who recently mentioned that he can't keep his Ridgeline much past 90K because he EXPECTS the tranny to go by then!! It sounds like everyone I've known with old Grand Cherokees, they had bad transfer case problems!!

Honda does build great motors and small cars BUT I don't recall ANY of their large "heavy duty" vehicles with great reputations?! My two cents IF you want a mid-sized truck, buy a Tacoma! Yeah Toyota's taking a hit these days but there IS NOT a better, reliable, practical, 18-23MPG truck on the market! Ummm..........I'll leave now before I get flame thrown!!

Back to our regular scheduled program.

So....I think Honda should paint the X-Tourer in Black and Blue.
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Old 11-27-2010, 10:24 AM   #297
bross
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pcfly
I have friends with the SAME ISSUES!! I have one who recently mentioned that he can't keep his Ridgeline much past 90K because he EXPECTS the tranny to go by then!! It sounds like everyone I've known with old Grand Cherokees, they had bad transfer case problems!!

Honda does build great motors and small cars BUT I don't recall ANY of their large "heavy duty" vehicles with great reputations?! My two cents IF you want a mid-sized truck, buy a Tacoma! Yeah Toyota's taking a hit these days but there IS NOT a better, reliable, practical, 18-23MPG truck on the market! Ummm..........I'll leave now before I get flame thrown!!

Back to our regular scheduled program.

So....I think Honda should paint the X-Tourer in Black and Blue.
I love my Frontier!
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Old 11-27-2010, 10:31 AM   #298
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hogrunner
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=3]Goldwings mentioned in this thread. I had one; It overheated (temp gauge to red) and leaked from the rear drive. CD changer failed, //
STOP THE PRESSES!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 11-27-2010, 01:10 PM   #299
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Old 11-27-2010, 01:11 PM   #300
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