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Old 11-28-2011, 03:15 PM   #901
lonerockz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eakins View Post
so honda na convinced honda corp to keep producing the st for them?
if true, that shows na does have influence over the "all-knowing" corp.

as for price, no way honda could charge more than a comparable GS.
sure honda would love to think they could but they're not that good to be able to.
Well yes and no. Honda Japan only brought back the ST after the VFR1200 flopped. Notice there was no 2011? And the ST has stratospheric pricing, in line with comprable BMWs.
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Old 11-28-2011, 03:35 PM   #902
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lonerockz View Post
Well yes and no. Honda Japan only brought back the ST after the VFR1200 flopped. Notice there was no 2011? And the ST has stratospheric pricing, in line with comprable BMWs.
Honda is asking $18,230 for the '12 ST1300s. Why would anyone pay that when the Kawasaki C14 costs three grand less and is a much better bike.

I still believe in Honda's engineering prowess but I think they need a change in leadership or at least market research. They built the Fury just as the chopper craze was dying. They built the DN-01 which will probably go down in history right next to the Ford Edsel. And they built the VFR1200 which is a technological masterpiece but the bike is confused about its identity. Is a shaft driven sport bike or a very uncomfortable and impractical sport tourer?
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Old 11-28-2011, 03:43 PM   #903
GrahamD
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Originally Posted by scottie boy View Post
They built the DN-01 which will probably go down in history right next to the Ford Edsel.
Think I better go and buy one, they could be worth a lot in a few years !!
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Old 11-28-2011, 05:30 PM   #904
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Originally Posted by GrahamD View Post
Think I better go and buy one, they could be worth a lot in a few years !!
Just keep in mind the Edsel didn't become a desirable collectible until about three decades had passed. Even today, its not nearly as desirable as many other cars from the same period.

- Mark
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Old 11-28-2011, 06:19 PM   #905
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lion BR View Post
Good point. You should include the S10 crowd here too (The S10 is a poor man's copy of the GS). The Honda will embarrass the S10 crowd as well.
My S10 was just under $16K out the door with some goodies. I didn't buy the BMW because of a price difference.
I wanted a modern water cooled twin with as few issues as possible.
Many claimed the S10 would never be worth a shit off road. I can't tell you how surprised I am with how
capable this is off slab. They only Beast I have a hard time keeping pace with is the KTMs.

To make statements about a bike no one has ridden is just being an armchair idiot.

I have no doubt the Honda will be a very strong contender. They build dependable, great fit and finish
bikes. For me they are usually refined to the point of boredom. Other than some small bore dirt bikes
and scooters I stopped buyng Hondas after my RC51.
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Old 11-29-2011, 06:06 AM   #906
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Well, when the Honda X Tour finally gets here sometime in 2013, at least the S10 will no longer be the heaviest of the big trailies. Honda is admitting to 605 lbs. with gas. New Triumph 1200 is said to be around 570 with gas so none of the big guys is a single track specialist.

Anyway, new Honda will probably be what a lot of guys want in a big trailie, a great touring bike that can handle a bit of off road and all the crappy pavement you can throw at it. And it'll be reliable with good dealer access. Since all the states and feds are broke, they'll probably get a little more behind in road maintenance and these will be the bikes of choice. Heck, some of our paved roads here already look like dirt roads! My wife's SUV seems a better daily driver than my car.
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Old 11-29-2011, 06:23 AM   #907
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20valves is right....

....let's face it people, the vast majority of GS owners don't really go off road. Not seriously, "Long Way 'round" off road. Most people ride on tarmac and hit a gravel road every now and then.

The new Honda and big Triumph will be perfect for 90% of those riders. They will be more powerful versions of the DL1000 V-Strom with more toys and shaft drive.

As the owner of a DL650 V-Strom who mounted Continental Road Attack II tires and who never goes off road, these bikes REALLY appeal to me. I live in Louisiana and the roads are horrible. My V-Strom soaks up the potholes, gets 50mpg, and handles great with the suspension mods I have made.

She only has 60hp, and she's a great bike. So, the idea of a V-4 Honda or Triumph Triple with 130ish hp, shaft drive, and long travel suspension that is road biased is PERFECT for me.

I'd buy a V-Strom 1000 if they offered it with ABS.

But they don't.

So, for ME, the new Honda, S10, Triumph, or this new Versys 1000, are all on my radar as a future bike for ME.

I'm 44 years old, I have the money. I'm sticking with my 650 V-Strom for now, she does everything I need a bike to do. But, one day, maybe next year, maybe ten years from now, I'm gonna want to try one of these bikes with 130ish hp.

The only thing I need to decide, is if I want to stick with a "Tall-Rounder" or just get a Concours14 type of machine.
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Old 11-29-2011, 06:58 AM   #908
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I'm planning to buy a new bike this year between now and Spring.. After looking at several of the options I thought I had it narrowed down the where the Honda X Tour was at the top of the list. And seeing it in person was the only reason I was planning on dealing with the crowds of the NYC motorcycle show. If Honda isn't showing the bike, I probably won't bother going to the show.

I have ridden the VFR1200, both versions and was impressed at how smooth it was. I rode it at a Honda sponsored event in Killington, Vermont where the invitees also got a fairly comprehensive briefing on the development of the bike. I was hoping the new Honda would combine the smoothness of my ST1100 V4 and the handling and riding position of my VStrom 1000.

I've also ridden the GS. Nice bike but although I like riding long distances, a long distance ride to get to a dealership isn't what I have in mind. I haven't ridden the Yamaha S10. I'd prefer the V4 of the Honda but if its not coming here I'll give the S10 at harder look.

It would be nice if Honda would be definitive about this coming to the US in 2012 or not.
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Old 11-29-2011, 09:58 AM   #909
Twohondas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadRdr View Post
I'm planning to buy a new bike this year between now and Spring.. After looking at several of the options I thought I had it narrowed down the where the Honda X Tour was at the top of the list. And seeing it in person was the only reason I was planning on dealing with the crowds of the NYC motorcycle show. If Honda isn't showing the bike, I probably won't bother going to the show.

.....................
I've also ridden the GS. Nice bike but although I like riding long distances, a long distance ride to get to a dealership isn't what I have in mind. I haven't ridden the Yamaha S10. I'd prefer the V4 of the Honda but if its not coming here I'll give the S10 at harder look.

It would be nice if Honda would be definitive about this coming to the US in 2012 or not.
Wow ....you summed it up for me too. Substitute Long Beach MC show for NYC!
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Old 11-29-2011, 12:55 PM   #910
KellyC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markjenn View Post

honda screwed up royally, but their effort was definitely full-ass, not half-ass. I'd prefer that honda stop swinging for the fences and instead go back to doing evolutionary bikes that are priced competitively. Update bikes like the old vfr, the transalp, the african twin and start selling them aggressively. Bring over cool bikes like the cb1100f with a retro version and a cafe version. Take the xr650r and build a great dual-sport with a big tank along the lines of the old ktm 640a. These are things that don't require huge investments and can be priced competitively.

- mark
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Old 11-29-2011, 03:43 PM   #911
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Who remembers the sparkless, fuel-injected two-stroke rally bike Honda built? Won several rallyes (I think it won almost everything it entered) and then disappeared. Don't understand how Honda cannot build on its successes more
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Old 11-29-2011, 04:15 PM   #912
ObiJohn
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I saw the CrossTourer in Birmingham UK... happened to be in the UK for business and decided to check them out at the Motorcyles Live expo. I was pretty impressed. It looks like Honda's competitive response to the R1200GSA... a little heavier but built with Honda quality and reliability. Like most BMW adventure bikes the typical owner will never go on worse than a decently-graded dirt road.



I'm also thinking of an upright, road-biased long-distance tourer that can also handle the occasional dirt road and rough pavement. I'm not looking to beat a sport bike in the twisties, nor am I looking to ride in the Dakar rally. I'd like something that could be taken eventually on a tour down to South America, or through Europe. If I wanted to go across Asia I'd ride a 250cc dual-sport and carry a LOT less gear, the goal being ultimate reliability and ease of off-road travel instead of blinding-fast acceleration and the ability to leap over rivers. Fuel economy is pretty important, and so is the ability to run on regular gas (not premium)... I'm not sure of the availability of high octane gas in the rest of the world.

My one concern with all of the big adventurer tourers is how likely the front wheel is to slide out on dirt roads, but I'm guessing good tires will take care of that. I've picked up a 600lb bike after it's fallen over, and although the proper technique makes it possible, it isn't easy. Having to do it more than a couple of times would be exhausting.

Supposedly the WeeStrom has been completely redesigned, as well, and ABS will be standard. The ones I saw at the show looked much better than the current model, and would be something to consider as well... although based upon my limited experience I believe that Honda makes a more reliable motorcycle.

I'm pretty likely to buy a larger adventure tourer in the next year or so (hopefully before next riding season), and if Honda is going to bring the Crosstourer over to America (couldn't get a good answer from the Honda folks in the UK) I'd give it serious consideration.



Regardless, it's a great time to be a motorcyclist.
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Old 11-29-2011, 11:45 PM   #913
eakins
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if you look up: reliable motorcycle
in the dictionary there is a picture of the 650 strom

Quote:
Originally Posted by ObiJohn View Post
I saw the CrossTourer in Birmingham UK... happened to be in the UK for business and decided to check them out at the Motorcyles Live expo. I was pretty impressed. It looks like Honda's competitive response to the R1200GSA... a little heavier but built with Honda quality and reliability. Like most BMW adventure bikes the typical owner will never go on worse than a decently-graded dirt road.



I'm also thinking of an upright, road-biased long-distance tourer that can also handle the occasional dirt road and rough pavement. I'm not looking to beat a sport bike in the twisties, nor am I looking to ride in the Dakar rally. I'd like something that could be taken eventually on a tour down to South America, or through Europe. If I wanted to go across Asia I'd ride a 250cc dual-sport and carry a LOT less gear, the goal being ultimate reliability and ease of off-road travel instead of blinding-fast acceleration and the ability to leap over rivers. Fuel economy is pretty important, and so is the ability to run on regular gas (not premium)... I'm not sure of the availability of high octane gas in the rest of the world.

My one concern with all of the big adventurer tourers is how likely the front wheel is to slide out on dirt roads, but I'm guessing good tires will take care of that. I've picked up a 600lb bike after it's fallen over, and although the proper technique makes it possible, it isn't easy. Having to do it more than a couple of times would be exhausting.

Supposedly the WeeStrom has been completely redesigned, as well, and ABS will be standard. The ones I saw at the show looked much better than the current model, and would be something to consider as well... although based upon my limited experience I believe that Honda makes a more reliable motorcycle.

I'm pretty likely to buy a larger adventure tourer in the next year or so (hopefully before next riding season), and if Honda is going to bring the Crosstourer over to America (couldn't get a good answer from the Honda folks in the UK) I'd give it serious consideration.



Regardless, it's a great time to be a motorcyclist.
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Old 11-30-2011, 06:46 AM   #914
RedRocket
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The V-strom looks almost beautiful in that gold color.

Did I just say the " V-strom and beauty " at the same time?
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Old 11-30-2011, 07:58 AM   #915
precarious
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After seeing what a GSA can do in person, I'm sure the Honda will do just fine. In the hands of a skilled rider, even a 600lb machine can land MX jumps, rip single tracks, cruise over rocks and creeks, and step the tail out through berms. No smoke and mirrors, just good riding.

I'm not a BMW advocate by any means, but I've seen what the thing can do; it's a wonderful piece of engineering. Anyone who says it's a disgrace to adventure riding or incompetent offroad is an idiot. No, it's not a 450cc dirtbike, and it doesn't act like one. It can't get to out-of-the-way places as fast as a single, but it will get there. You know, barring any final drive failures

The reason you buy a liter-sized adventure bike is to soak up road miles so you can get to the adventure, to have the power to accelerate uphill, fully-loaded around a semi, and to have a chuckle as you float the front end past unsuspecting squids. If most of your time is spent off-road, then this isn't the bike for you. Buy an HP2, or a 990 SE, or an XR 650. But stop blasting good machines which perform their intended purpose well. Does it really come as any surprise that a 1200cc V4 Honda is heavy and is not a hardcore dirtbike? Come on, people...
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