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Old 05-11-2012, 09:15 PM   #1321
Sock Monkey
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Originally Posted by arrcrussell View Post
I spoke with a couple of Honda reps at the bike show this past January about the XTourer coming to the US. Each said that the US sales of the VFR1200 were a surprising disappointment and they are afraid of the same for the XTourer.
So, they import the WRONG bike in the VFR1200.....They had no idea where to put it....Sport bike? No, too big and heavy. Sport Touring? Not with that riding position....it sets up like a sport bike, and the gas mileage sucked for a tourer. Then WTF is it? It didn't really fit anywhere, and it didn't sell well ANYWHERE (forget the US sales numbers, that bike was a bust worldwide!). Now, here's a bike that actually MAKES SENSE for the US market (Xtourer, big comfy upright long range mile muncher retuned for better low/mid range and better fuel consumption), and they don't want to import it because they f'd up w/ the VFR???? BRILLIANT!!! Must be a decision made by a non-US-based non-riding golf club toting bean counting WANKER who can't be pulled away from his latte mocha frappajammachino long enough to care. If Honda USA had a nut sack, I'd kick them in it, but since they don't, I guess I'll just buy my next bike from someone else.

-SM
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Old 05-12-2012, 01:18 AM   #1322
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Originally Posted by GrahamD View Post
Look at the rake trail compared to the RT, it's (on paper) slower. The big wheel and the slower geometry would suggest exactly what you said. But this is what I have found riding a bike with a similar setup (THANK GOD!!).

The transition from tarmac to dirt is way better. Because tarmac is fairly predictable I have found that my brain has dialed that slowness in and doesn't notice it any more. Off tarmac where things are less predictable I have found the slower steering to be a big plus because it will follow a line much better without having to constantly concentrate and having that feeling of having to correct every little tendency to follow every little rut. I must say I am glad some manufacturers have decided to go this way. It makes the longer term riding experience a lot better IMO.

That is assuming that your weekends aren't about chasing RRR bikes through tight twisties. Then you have to work harder at it.
You are exactly right Graham, I should have gone on to say that once I started riding it like an off road bike, i.e elbows up and push the bike down beneath you it is actually very nimble and a lot of fun. The trouble was for the highway it puts a lot of pressure on my shoulders(I don't mean wind pressure) an inch or two on the seat would cure this. I hope they offer a higher seat option. If not I could probably use an air hawk to gain that inch and maybe some comfort too. It really is as if they have tried very hard to make it good to ride off road ergo wise but then said its not an off road bike, which it isn't. Like the VFR they have confused the product but in this model they will do better with it, and deserve to. Crosstourer? Bloody fast and comfy tourer more like
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Old 05-12-2012, 05:14 AM   #1323
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Nice one! Glad you enjoyed it.
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Old 05-12-2012, 05:23 AM   #1324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sock Monkey View Post
So, they import the WRONG bike in the VFR1200.....They had no idea where to put it....Sport bike? No, too big and heavy. Sport Touring? Not with that riding position....it sets up like a sport bike, and the gas mileage sucked for a tourer. Then WTF is it? It didn't really fit anywhere, and it didn't sell well ANYWHERE (forget the US sales numbers, that bike was a bust worldwide!). Now, here's a bike that actually MAKES SENSE for the US market (Xtourer, big comfy upright long range mile muncher retuned for better low/mid range and better fuel consumption), and they don't want to import it because they f'd up w/ the VFR???? BRILLIANT!!! Must be a decision made by a non-US-based non-riding golf club toting bean counting WANKER who can't be pulled away from his latte mocha frappajammachino long enough to care. If Honda USA had a nut sack, I'd kick them in it, but since they don't, I guess I'll just buy my next bike from someone else.

-SM
I couldn't have said it better myself so I won't even try.

Honda used to be the leader in supplying Motorcycles the public wanted. Now they don't have a clue and they just hope to get lucky once in awhile.
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Old 05-12-2012, 07:55 AM   #1325
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Originally Posted by bmac View Post
I couldn't have said it better myself so I won't even try.

Honda used to be the leader in supplying Motorcycles the public wanted. Now they don't have a clue and they just hope to get lucky once in awhile.
In my way of looking at it, the VFR 1200 was in the same class as the previous VFR's which were successful bikes. The problem I found in my experience in trying to sell them was the very high price. This year AHM added some incentive $$ on leftovers and we sold them. We sold a demo for $9998, a much more attractive price for buyers than $15998 for the standard and $17499 for the DCT. A non demo leftover is now $11399.The 2012 ST1300 ABS is now $18230 and that is with a standard transmission. I believe they will have problems selling them at that price. If they were to bring the Crosstourer over for the same $18230 for the strandard and another $1500 for DCT, for $19730, I don't think they would sell that well.
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Old 05-12-2012, 08:30 AM   #1326
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Originally Posted by fredz43 View Post
In my way of looking at it, the VFR 1200 was in the same class as the previous VFR's which were successful bikes. The problem I found in my experience in trying to sell them was the very high price. This year AHM added some incentive $$ on leftovers and we sold them. We sold a demo for $9998, a much more attractive price for buyers than $15998 for the standard and $17499 for the DCT. A non demo leftover is now $11399.The 2012 ST1300 ABS is now $18230 and that is with a standard transmission. I believe they will have problems selling them at that price. If they were to bring the Crosstourer over for the same $18230 for the strandard and another $1500 for DCT, for $19730, I don't think they would sell that well.
If the VFR wasn't selling at $15998, why would the rocket scientists at Honda US try to sell the Xtourer at > $18,000..... . To be competitive, they would need to sell it for similar $$$ as the competition, which arguably is the Yamaha S10, BMW GS Sport, Triumph Tiger Explorer, et al, which clock in at around $16k here in the US. If they did that, they'd sell. $18k+??? They'd sit. A Honda isn't worth a $2k premium over the other bikes in the Adv Tourer class.....

-SM
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Old 05-12-2012, 09:10 AM   #1327
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Right on!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sock Monkey View Post
So, they import the WRONG bike in the VFR1200.....They had no idea where to put it....Sport bike? No, too big and heavy. Sport Touring? Not with that riding position....it sets up like a sport bike, and the gas mileage sucked for a tourer. Then WTF is it? It didn't really fit anywhere, and it didn't sell well ANYWHERE (forget the US sales numbers, that bike was a bust worldwide!). Now, here's a bike that actually MAKES SENSE for the US market (Xtourer, big comfy upright long range mile muncher retuned for better low/mid range and better fuel consumption), and they don't want to import it because they f'd up w/ the VFR???? BRILLIANT!!! Must be a decision made by a non-US-based non-riding golf club toting bean counting WANKER who can't be pulled away from his latte mocha frappajammachino long enough to care. If Honda USA had a nut sack, I'd kick them in it, but since they don't, I guess I'll just buy my next bike from someone else.

-SM
I could not have said it better myself! What on earth has happened to Honda? Even the most loyal Big H kool-aid drinkers are starting to realize that something is very wrong over there!

Tino
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Old 05-12-2012, 09:24 AM   #1328
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredz43 View Post
In my way of looking at it, the VFR 1200 was in the same class as the previous VFR's which were successful bikes. The problem I found in my experience in trying to sell them was the very high price. This year AHM added some incentive $$ on leftovers and we sold them. We sold a demo for $9998, a much more attractive price for buyers than $15998 for the standard and $17499 for the DCT. A non demo leftover is now $11399.The 2012 ST1300 ABS is now $18230 and that is with a standard transmission. I believe they will have problems selling them at that price. If they were to bring the Crosstourer over for the same $18230 for the strandard and another $1500 for DCT, for $19730, I don't think they would sell that well.
There you have it exactly. Everything has its price ceiling of what people are willing to pay. Personally I was amazed that Ducati sold any multistarda's let alone all of them for the price they pitched them at. As much as I want a crosstourer I'm going to try and wait to see if the deals get better, which I think they will as the press is pretty Luke warm about the bike and the VFR has tainted the product a little. Although I personally really like them. The crosstourer has moved this "style of bike" to a different area and will take some time for people to catch on. Lucky me. I'll take one with DCT and ride around in smugness like I used to do with my 1100 GS and people would ask "why a GS?" This thing is the new gentlemans express.
Can we keep this between ourselves please
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Old 05-12-2012, 09:27 AM   #1329
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Originally Posted by Paulvt1 View Post
Nice one! Glad you enjoyed it.
Can't wait to hear what you think of the DCT version.
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Old 05-12-2012, 10:42 AM   #1330
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Originally Posted by Sock Monkey View Post
If the VFR wasn't selling at $15998, why would the rocket scientists at Honda US try to sell the Xtourer at > $18,000..... . To be competitive, they would need to sell it for similar $$$ as the competition, which arguably is the Yamaha S10, BMW GS Sport, Triumph Tiger Explorer, et al, which clock in at around $16k here in the US. If they did that, they'd sell. $18k+??? They'd sit. A Honda isn't worth a $2k premium over the other bikes in the Adv Tourer class.....

-SM
That is exactly what the management of American Honda is struggling with right now. If the price would have to be in the range of the VFR or ST1300, they believe they would not be able to move them. They do not have the final say on what their cost would be and therefore what their MSRP would have to be.
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Old 05-12-2012, 11:18 AM   #1331
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Originally Posted by fredz43 View Post
That is exactly what the management of American Honda is struggling with right now. If the price would have to be in the range of the VFR or ST1300, they believe they would not be able to move them. They do not have the final say on what their cost would be and therefore what their MSRP would have to be.
But....those are 2 VERY different price points. The VFR, which the Xtourer is based on, has a MSRP of $15,999 (non-DCT). The ST1300 has a base MSRP of $18,230. If the MSRP in the US for the Xtourer was in line with the VFR at $15,999, it would be right in the hunt with all the other "Adventure Touring" bikes out there. It's a VFR!!!!! Just redone to jump on the bandwagon of the ONE growing market segment here. Price it like the VFR and you have a compelling offering. Go ahead and upcharge by $1500 for the DCT version. Done! Why is this so hard for them to figure out? Oh right....I forgot....too busy playing golf.

-SM
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Old 05-12-2012, 01:37 PM   #1332
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Originally Posted by bingbong View Post
There you have it exactly. Everything has its price ceiling of what people are willing to pay. Personally I was amazed that Ducati sold any multistarda's let alone all of them for the price they pitched them at. As much as I want a crosstourer I'm going to try and wait to see if the deals get better, which I think they will as the press is pretty Luke warm about the bike and the VFR has tainted the product a little. Although I personally really like them. The crosstourer has moved this "style of bike" to a different area and will take some time for people to catch on. Lucky me. I'll take one with DCT and ride around in smugness like I used to do with my 1100 GS and people would ask "why a GS?" This thing is the new gentlemans express.
Can we keep this between ourselves please
Good play - and the sensible decision.
The Tiger is getting all the rave reviews, so i reckon that Honda will heavily discount the XTour this winter.
Could be one hell of a bargain..
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Old 05-12-2012, 08:44 PM   #1333
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Originally Posted by Sock Monkey View Post
But....those are 2 VERY different price points. The VFR, which the Xtourer is based on, has a MSRP of $15,999 (non-DCT). The ST1300 has a base MSRP of $18,230. If the MSRP in the US for the Xtourer was in line with the VFR at $15,999, it would be right in the hunt with all the other "Adventure Touring" bikes out there. It's a VFR!!!!! Just redone to jump on the bandwagon of the ONE growing market segment here. Price it like the VFR and you have a compelling offering. Go ahead and upcharge by $1500 for the DCT version. Done! Why is this so hard for them to figure out? Oh right....I forgot....too busy playing golf.

-SM
Well, I'll try to say it more clearly, and that is AHM is concerned that the price would be out of line, just as the VFR was out of line and sales struggled. Feedback from our Honda sales reps is that they would like to bring it in if they could do so at a competitive price.

BTW, $15,999 was the MSRP for the standard 2010 VFR1200. If you look at AHM's website for the 2012 VFR it says "price TBD", so we don't know what it will be. I would bet that if they could bring the Crosstourer in at a $15999 MSRP, they would be lobbying very hard to get it.

Now, recall that American Yamaha had initially said they they had no plans on bringing the Super Tenere in to the USA. However, they got so many calls and emails asking that they bring them in, that they decided to do it on a pre order process for the initial shipment. I would recommend that those that are seriously interested in AHM bringing the Crosstourer in contact American Honda and tell them that. That would be much more effective than all of us complaining on the forums. Couldn't hurt and might help.

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Old 05-13-2012, 02:29 AM   #1334
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I've looked several times on the AHM website for email contact information so that I could send an email of my support for bringing it to the states. I can't find an email address that seemed appropriate. It might actually require putting a stamp on an envelope.
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Old 05-13-2012, 03:15 AM   #1335
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There were some crazy prices being mooted over here for the Xtour, but Honda learned from the Yamaha sales flop of the Super Tenere and priced the bike within spitting distance of the competition.
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