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Old 11-03-2010, 01:59 PM   #121
markjenn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parigi
Doesn't BMW hold a patent on the cross spoke design? The wheels look exactly like the GS ones.
My guess is that the patent is expiring or Honda is planning on licensing the technology. (This is a concept bike, so it may change before production.) It's quite possible that BMW doesn't own the patent - they may be licensing it from someone else.

I've heard some comment that they think the S10 design is superior, but my take is that a straight spoke (BMW and possibly this new Honda) is stronger than a hooked spoke (Yamaha). Both may be plenty strong enough. In an event, I'm just glad to see more spoked tubeless.

- Mark
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Old 11-03-2010, 02:13 PM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parigi
Doesn't BMW hold a patent on the cross spoke design? The wheels look exactly like the GS ones.

I think they have licensed it to others in the past....perhaps Aprilia? Of course they had a working relationship..who knows?

What I find interesting from a design standpoint on both the 1200 and 800 Honda is how the body basically becomes the fairing. How it is moved up and back from the front wheel. It is very much like a 1200 Adventure where the tank/body is the fairing. IMO this is functional, but does not make a good looking bike.

Personally I like the 990, 640/660, S10 traditional rally style fairing much better.
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Old 11-03-2010, 02:25 PM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markjenn
I've heard some comment that they think the S10 design is superior, but my take is that a straight spoke (BMW and possibly this new Honda) is stronger than a hooked spoke (Yamaha). Both may be plenty strong enough. In an event, I'm just glad to see more spoked tubeless.k
Cross spoked is indeed not the most stable solution, the Alpine solution is actually the nicest, but very cost ineffective, the Yamaha approach is the best inbetween, and allthough i feared, the rutt would fill up with dirt, it just doesn't happen strangely enough, my flat beemer wheels clogged up way more mud inballance. But crossspoked wheels are way more easier to polish and look more airy (but warp real easy, i'm now on my fourth set of wheels with the BMW
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Old 11-03-2010, 02:27 PM   #124
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Speaking about spokes & fairing...

Quote:
Originally Posted by markjenn
My guess is that the patent is expiring or Honda is planning on licensing the technology. (This is a concept bike, so it may change before production.) It's quite possible that BMW doesn't own the patent - they may be licensing it from someone else.

I've heard some comment that they think the S10 design is superior, but my take is that a straight spoke (BMW and possibly this new Honda) is stronger than a hooked spoke (Yamaha). Both may be plenty strong enough. In an event, I'm just glad to see more spoked tubeless.

- Mark
I don't care how or on which licence spoked wheels will be back on any Honda big trail bike, but I agree with Mark!

And there are more... The Guzzi Stelvio NTX, the Caponord Raid, etc. To make an good objective judgement if the crossspokes on the Crosstourer (what's in a name...) are exactly like BMW provides I/we have to have an closer look... But I like the looks of it any way. Especially on a bike like this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCQTT
I think they have licensed it to others in the past....perhaps Aprilia? Of course they had a working relationship..who knows?

What I find interesting from a design standpoint on both the 1200 and 800 Honda is how the body basically becomes the fairing. How it is moved up and back from the front wheel. It is very much like a 1200 Adventure where the tank/body is the fairing. IMO this is functional, but does not make a good looking bike.

Personally I like the 990, 640/660, S10 traditional rally style fairing much better.
Besides looks which is an personal matter of taste... what's wrong with some fairing on a big trail bike? Besides Honda reliability, the fairing is the main reason why I prefer my current Honda XL1000V Varadero above any other big trail bike. There is NO (and believe me, I've tested a lot of them) 2nd big trail bike on the marked which offers that amount of all-weather protection, even if you are 6,8 ft tall and 4 stone heavy like me.

I agree on the looks. But I don't see it when I'm riding the bike - in that position I prefer the comfort and protection provided by all the plastics without having the feeling that I'm riding an Gold Wing or - forgive me - a PC 800...
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Old 11-03-2010, 03:08 PM   #125
mr moto
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Video of the new 1200 concept bike , wait or fast forward past the scooter to about 1 minute 40 seconds and you get a very good look at it .
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Old 11-03-2010, 03:44 PM   #126
arrcrussell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr moto
... Honda have indicated that if ...IF ... this bike goes into production , it will hit dealers floors in late 2012 ! And that,s here in Euroland , if it makes it to the states , it might be 2013 ...
WTF !?!?! Is this fact or speculation/hearsay? If Honda waits till 2013 to get this to the states ...
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Old 11-03-2010, 04:16 PM   #127
tremor38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Two Plugs

Comparing with the S10… On first sight (the first pics released by Yamaha) I really fell in love with the S10. It looked huge. But in real live (had an near to 500 km test spin on one of those) it is TINY.
Ok, another, 'get real', reality check. Your size is not that of the prototypical Human Being, 'treetop grazer.'

In your case, 'tiny' would be quite relaxed to us normal sized people. I'd go as far to say that 'tiny,' even from your perspective, when talking about the S10 is bordering upon hyperbole. I read you report on the S10, and at no time did you report cramped ergos. Interesting that once a Honda enters the subject you start throwing sandbags at the Yamaha. :-)
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Old 11-03-2010, 04:25 PM   #128
Petrus
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Ugly

Bleh, wish honda came up with a true new Africa Twin. Don't like it.
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Old 11-03-2010, 04:58 PM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bikeaddict
BOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGG GG! sO hONDA!!!
What you need is some bold new graphics.
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Old 11-03-2010, 09:09 PM   #130
RED CAT
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New Honda!

Couple of observations. The muffler is nice and small like on a GS12 not like that abortion on the S10. Bulge on the lower right hand side of the engine cases is the automatic tranny. Could be interesting. The windshield is a very important but overlooked feature. Too far foreward and you get terrible buffeting, like the KTM 990 Adventure. I know I had one. Angle is very important too as it also affects wind noise. Not sure about the Varadero or the ST but the windshield on the GS is very good in this respect. It is angle adjustable. We are on our bikes alot so this to me is one thing that I am very aware of and watch out for after the KTM. Other than this bike looks heavy like the Varadero and Super Tenere it will have appeal to the road bike crowd who want to be able to do light gravel roads.
About time you got off your ass, Honda.
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Old 11-03-2010, 09:19 PM   #131
GrahamD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RED CAT
Other than this bike looks heavy like the Varadero and Super Tenere.
If they do as good a job with the weight as YAMAHA did it won't be an issue, unless they are unreliable and you have to push them up hills a lot.
But that doesn't sound like most Hondas.

On the other hand if the design brief is to design comfortable road bike then I don't suppose they will give it a huge priority. I would say the main aim is to get some amortization on the 1.2L V4 platform.

Cheers
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Old 11-04-2010, 12:57 AM   #132
Two Plugs OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tremor38
Ok, another, 'get real', reality check. Your size is not that of the prototypical Human Being, 'treetop grazer.'

In your case, 'tiny' would be quite relaxed to us normal sized people. I'd go as far to say that 'tiny,' even from your perspective, when talking about the S10 is bordering upon hyperbole. I read you report on the S10, and at no time did you report cramped ergos. Interesting that once a Honda enters the subject you start throwing sandbags at the Yamaha. :-)
@ Tremor38... I don't want to sound rude, but... Read, allow the gathered information time to settle and then reply.

I NEVER have thrown sand at Yamaha or the S10 (I keep my bags behind for BMW's... ) and I still think the Yam S10 is a good bike. Cramped ergo's? On the S10? That is fully your impression, not mine. I liked the ergo's on the S10 - just the way I disliked some of the ergo's on the Honda VFR1200 (f.e. the horn witch which is likely to be mistaken as 'indicator' switch).

I have never stated in the report that the bike is 'too' small for me. But fact remains that in real live even the 'small' 660 Teneré has an 'taller' appearance as the 'big' S10. I can't change facts. If you can't live with them - that's OK for me, but don't pinpoint me on it.

And if you have read my posting here carefully and with attention, you should have read that I worry that the new Honda is smaller than it appears on the pictures. And above that... there is still no tech data regarding fuel capacity, fuel economy, ergonomics, weight, price, etcetera. From that aspect I would be throwing sandbags towards the new CT - not towards the S10. But like I have stated, if this new Honda comes close to the POSSITIVE (hey, did you noticed? I wrote POSITIVE!) first experiences I had on the S10, and if the size of the thing comes close to what I hope to find when I encounter the CT in real live it's going to be the Nr.1 in terms of possible future replacement for my current Varadero.

With the S10 coming on a good 2nd place.
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Old 11-04-2010, 01:27 AM   #133
v8turbo
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On the Honda Site

http://world.honda.com/news/2010/2101102V4-Crosstourer/

MILAN, Italy, November 2, 2010 - Honda has revealed the V4 Crosstourer Concept, the world’s first V4 Adventure Tourer motorcycle at EICMA 2010, an International Bicycle and Motorcycle Exhibition in Milan, Italy.

Sharing the phenomenal V4 engine and the revolutionary Dual Clutch Transimission with the VFR1200F, the V4 Crosstourer Concept will deliver all the fun and excitement of a road sports bike; but with the comfortable upright riding position and manoeuvrability of an adventure machine.

The VFR1200F was the first model to utilize the new iconic V4 engine that signified the beginning of the new era in Honda’s engine line-up. The V4 Crosstourer Concept will utilise the same engine as the Road Sport category VFR to bring the benefits of this world-beating engine to a new type of customer. This will be the first time an Adventure Tourer bike has been fitted with a compact and powerful four cylinder V-engine unit.

The riding experience will be further enhanced with the V4 Crosstourer Concept being developed with the revolutionary Dual Clutch Transmission that gives seamless gear changes for a sport riding feel. The new bike is the second Honda to be fitted with this innovative transmission system after the VFR1200F and it is the first time this award-winning technology has been seen in this category.

Honda has always strived to bring innovative designs and innovative technology to our motorcycle customers. As a company famed for challenging conventional motorcycle thinking, Honda is committed to producing bikes which fulfil the needs and desires of our customers.

Together with 800cc Crossrunner also revealed at EICMA, the V4 Crosstourer concept expands Honda’s state-of-the-art V4 model line-up.
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Old 11-04-2010, 01:44 AM   #134
MrKiwi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesman
Hear hear...last summer I saw quite a few "mammoth adventure" bikes on Stelvio and none of them seemed to be "at home" on that side of Stelvio pass.
To be honest it is area ruled by sports and all kind of fast light bikes. My friend with FJR struggled a bit as well.
When we were taking photos group of GSes equipped well enough for South Pole expedition went past with riders standing on the pegs on that dirt-covered part of road just to be overtaken but group of guys on Ducati Monsters, Hypermotards and older Multis thou it says nothing about bike ability I guess.

P.S. Suzuki beak ripoff - 1988 Suzuki DR750

He did, and he realished making another bike like that would be repeating a grave mistake, so they've developed instead the crosstourer concept bike and by god, what a bike it is too...
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Old 11-04-2010, 02:26 AM   #135
bluesman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrKiwi
He did, and he realished making another bike like that would be repeating a grave mistake, so they've developed instead the crosstourer concept bike and by god, what a bike it is too...
No idea what you mean...
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