ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Fluff > Shiny things
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 128 votes, 4.91 average. Display Modes
Old 09-26-2012, 10:32 AM   #5506
Hedge36
Chasing parts.
 
Hedge36's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2003
Location: Anacortes, WA
Oddometer: 44,202
Quote:
Originally Posted by v8toilet View Post
I can pm it. Didn't want to clutter the thread with our own saga
Oh, come on... it ain't all about purty pitchers, you know
Hedge36 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2012, 01:09 PM   #5507
Hay Ewe
Just a Wannabe
 
Hay Ewe's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: FNQ - AUS
Oddometer: 2,579
mate, there are pics of an ericson skycrane on the last page, i shall put some Mil8 pics up later - Hedge is right, its not all about pretty pics!

Spill the beans!

Hay Ewe and Bear
__________________
Moments before you die, your life will flash before your eyes - make sure the film is worth watching - my Grandad
I like your logic - its alternative - Ninja Wranga 03-Aug-13
WWBD? -
He'd swear a lot, dance on the log cards, piss in Johnny's beer and head off to the nearest bar 🍷
Hay Ewe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2012, 06:49 PM   #5508
v8toilet
Nothing to see here.
 
v8toilet's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Northwest U.S.
Oddometer: 1,709
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hay Ewe View Post
mate, there are pics of an ericson skycrane on the last page, i shall put some Mil8 pics up later - Hedge is right, its not all about pretty pics!

Spill the beans!

Hay Ewe and Bear
Beans spilled!

I'm not an A&P an EE, or an ET, I'm barely a pilot, just a working guy who wants to get back work riding shotgun looking out the window and pushing buttons on a computer.

MD500N
11000 hour airframe, hot section inspected and brought up to snuff 60 hours ago.

One morning pilot hits the starter and N1 gauge doesn't move off 0%. Can hear it turning. Check with reputable mechanic he says 9 out of 10 times its the tach generator. We order both the gauge and the generator to cover our bases, we've got work to do...

Mechanic installs parts N1 is functional.
Off to work fly to job.
Fire up aux electronics for work
Generator circuit breaker pops (10 amp on the panel).
Shutdown aux. equipment and reset breaker we had just powered up this equipment and it pulls quite a bit of power so we thought maybe it had caused the breaker pop.
Pops again within minutes with our aux. equipment off.
Shutdown non-essential electrics go to battery, leave the Gen switch on with circuit breaker pulled as per POH instruction for engine out horn.
After the second breaker pop we noticed the TOT is twitching erratically 150-200 degree sweeps both up and down seems in error as the machine is performing fine and N1 and N2 are showing no problems.
Return to base

Since that day:

TOT RELATED items addressed
New engine harness for TOT was installed 60 hours ago
New plug-in wiring from cannon plug on gauge to where it terminates.
Guage and wiring have been tested with appropriate testing equipment. Whatever it was tested with had just been sent in for calibration so we’re pretty confident that all these items are functional
TOT worked for a few starts and stayed solid for 10 minutes or so each start so we thought at least the TOT was under control

Starter Generator Related

The main issue is still Generator circuit breaker
Generator was sent out and tested and checked out good still has 700 hours until rebuild but we wanted to rule it out
10amp circuit breaker replaced
Generator switch replaced
New GCU installed and adjusted to factory setting (29v?)
Aft line connector/relay replaced
One chafe was found on the generator switch wiring and sealed up
After the line connector was replaced Gen breaker still pops our TOT started twitching again and the engine out horn started sounding intermittently even near 100% N2 previously it only sounded when we would preflight and run the governor check it would sound at 95%.
EPO (Engine Power Out) box tested by manufacturer and sent back clean bill of health

So maybe we've got two problems or we've got one problem that is wreaking havoc on multiple systems.


Could be in the harness, could be some out of the box thinking and a component that seems unrelated is causing us a lot of grief. I know I've got nothing to add, but I have a lot of confidence in the Advrider community and the surprising depth of knowledge I find here.


We parked next to (next to being a relative term) one of those orange S64's a few weeks ago.






v8toilet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2012, 07:39 PM   #5509
ian408
Oh?
 
ian408's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: Santa Clara, CA
Oddometer: 13,951
It sounds like you have a short or miss-wire someplace. Given you just swapped a harness, I'd have to guess it's either on a connector (maybe miss labeled/miss wired) or there is more damage to the harness that a simple chafe.
ian408 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2012, 08:06 PM   #5510
Hedge36
Chasing parts.
 
Hedge36's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2003
Location: Anacortes, WA
Oddometer: 44,202
Quote:
Originally Posted by v8toilet View Post
We parked next to (next to being a relative term) one of those orange S64's a few weeks ago.



Well, there's your problem
Hedge36 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2012, 08:08 PM   #5511
Hedge36
Chasing parts.
 
Hedge36's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2003
Location: Anacortes, WA
Oddometer: 44,202
Have you guys made any recent additions to your avionics?
Hedge36 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2012, 08:42 PM   #5512
v8toilet
Nothing to see here.
 
v8toilet's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Northwest U.S.
Oddometer: 1,709
Quote:
Originally Posted by ian408 View Post
or there is more damage to the harness that a simple chafe.
I've thought this the entire time, tomorrow we try a suggestion from MD. If that doesn't work a lot of wires will start to get replaced.
v8toilet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2012, 08:43 PM   #5513
v8toilet
Nothing to see here.
 
v8toilet's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Northwest U.S.
Oddometer: 1,709
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedge36 View Post
Have you guys made any recent additions to your avionics?
Not in the last 60 hours.
v8toilet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2012, 08:51 PM   #5514
Hedge36
Chasing parts.
 
Hedge36's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2003
Location: Anacortes, WA
Oddometer: 44,202
Quote:
Originally Posted by v8toilet View Post
Not in the last 60 hours.
It's gotta be chafing or cross-talk, then. Double-check that no wire bundles have been routed contrary to the factory route (around hangers and posts, et cetera).
Hedge36 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2012, 09:04 PM   #5515
seriousracer
be a man dodge tree bark
 
seriousracer's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2007
Location: i am not f***ng stupid,but i used too. niles mi.
Oddometer: 7,426
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedge36 View Post
It's gotta be chafing or cross-talk, then. Double-check that no wire bundles have been routed contrary to the factory route (around hangers and posts, et cetera).
running with my original post.
And quoting hedge..

maybe even a pinch on install.
__________________
racing is not real till your fighting for the line into the next blind corner,real roads, real trees, real fast, real men rally.

be a man dodge tree bark!

We’ve said it before, but it bears repeating; the GS handles in ways a two-story building was never meant to.

Taking collections for Faye Butler Training please spare some change.

www.kmotorwerks.com

Remember red and yellow make orange.so to think orange is better means you have to use two steps to get there.
________
seriousracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2012, 09:10 PM   #5516
Hay Ewe
Just a Wannabe
 
Hay Ewe's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: FNQ - AUS
Oddometer: 2,579
You said that you want to get flying and push computer buttons
You said that your equipment pulls quite a bit of power
You said that the aircraft is old 11,000hrs
You said no changes in the last 60hrs

My suggestion is that your special computer stuff on baord is causing EMF interference. it hasn't been a problem in the past but wireing etc has gradually decayed over the years, the sheilding that was there is no longer able to protect the systems.

You said no avionics changes in the last 60hrs - but when you did, what was the change? what is the new ELA (Electrical Load Analysis) again, might have been ok but as the newly installed equipment has aged, it is ut putting more noise causing this problem.

My Disclaimer is that I only know what a MD500 looks like, and I have no idea what the engine is (Googled it - is it a RR250-C30R series you have installed?) (I think that the C30R is FADEC?) but the EMF your kit is producing is causing a spike some where and causing your problems.

Try making sure that your special install kit is COMPLETLY removed from the onboard power systems and start up and fly and see what happens.

(Insert pop corn image thing here)

Hay Ewe
__________________
Moments before you die, your life will flash before your eyes - make sure the film is worth watching - my Grandad
I like your logic - its alternative - Ninja Wranga 03-Aug-13
WWBD? -
He'd swear a lot, dance on the log cards, piss in Johnny's beer and head off to the nearest bar 🍷

Hay Ewe screwed with this post 09-26-2012 at 09:19 PM
Hay Ewe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2012, 09:26 PM   #5517
v8toilet
Nothing to see here.
 
v8toilet's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Northwest U.S.
Oddometer: 1,709
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hay Ewe View Post
You said that you want to get flying and push computer buttons
You said that your equipment pulls quite a bit of power
You said that the aircraft is old 11,000hrs
You said no changes in the last 60hrs

My suggestion is that your special computer stuff on baord is causing EMF interference. it hasn't been a problem in the past but wireing etc has gradually decayed over the years, the sheilding that was there is no longer able to protect the systems.

You said no avionics changes in the last 60hrs - but when you did, what was the change? what is the new ELA (Electrical Load Analysis) again, might have been ok but as the newly installed equipment has aged, it is ut putting more noise causing this problem.

My Disclaimer is that I only know what a MD500 looks like, and I have no idea what the engine is (Googled it - is it a RR250-C30R series you have installed?) (I think that the C30R is FADEC?) but the EMF your kit is producing is causing a spike some where and causing your problems.

Try making sure that your special install kit is COMPLETLY removed from the onboard power systems and start up and fly and see what happens.

(Insert pop corn image thing here)

Hay Ewe

The problems exist with the equipment disconnected. I do understand your suggestion but we haven't turned on any auxiliary equipment since the initial breaker pop.

My basic troubleshooting method (can't speak for others involved) is as follows:
When did it work last?
What changed since then?
Could the changes be related?
What systems are effected?
Do the failing systems have any commonalities, junctions, shared components ?
Where are the likely failure points?
Do/can those items create these symptoms?
Test, isolate, recreate the fault, rinse, repeat.

Unfortunately I'm not knowledgeable enough to know the failure points so I'm sharing the symptoms. Thanks again for the help.

v8toilet screwed with this post 09-26-2012 at 09:39 PM
v8toilet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2012, 09:40 PM   #5518
Hay Ewe
Just a Wannabe
 
Hay Ewe's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: FNQ - AUS
Oddometer: 2,579
thanks for quick reply
what about any other component changes in the last few hours? maybe back the last 60

then as Hedge(?) suggested, check all the wiring
__________________
Moments before you die, your life will flash before your eyes - make sure the film is worth watching - my Grandad
I like your logic - its alternative - Ninja Wranga 03-Aug-13
WWBD? -
He'd swear a lot, dance on the log cards, piss in Johnny's beer and head off to the nearest bar 🍷
Hay Ewe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2012, 10:33 PM   #5519
v8toilet
Nothing to see here.
 
v8toilet's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Northwest U.S.
Oddometer: 1,709
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hay Ewe View Post
thanks for quick reply
what about any other component changes in the last few hours? maybe back the last 60

then as Hedge(?) suggested, check all the wiring
We'll check the log books and see what we can think up.
v8toilet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2012, 11:21 PM   #5520
ian408
Oh?
 
ian408's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: Santa Clara, CA
Oddometer: 13,951
Quote:
Originally Posted by v8toilet View Post
I've thought this the entire time, tomorrow we try a suggestion from MD. If that doesn't work a lot of wires will start to get replaced.
Out of curiosity, where did the 'new' harness come from? Was it recovered from another A/C? Is it possible it does not match the existing revision levels?
ian408 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 09:58 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014