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View Results: Which would you consider to buy?
Honda's New CrossTourer X-Tourer 80 15.75%
Yamaha Super Tenere 195 38.39%
Triumph Tiger 800XC 220 43.31%
BMW 800GS 48 9.45%
They're all WRONG!! Nobody's building the right bloody bike.....explanation below!! 42 8.27%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 508. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-07-2010, 10:23 AM   #46
byron555
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s10

but.... I'm not sure, the tiger looks good too. the solution is to win the lottery and buy both
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Old 11-07-2010, 10:45 AM   #47
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What irritates me most about all these new bikes is that they're so damn heavy.

The new tiger 800 is 210 kg wet without fuel.

The Honda Transalp is 216 kg dry.

The 990 Adv is 199 kg dry.

The 800 GS is 185 kg dry (claimed weight... this has been up for some discussion...)

Even the single cyl Yamaha Tenere is 185kg dry.

And let's not even bring up the Honda Crosstour or Yamaha Super T... if the Honda comes in under 250 kg's I'll be surprised.

Can't anyone make a medium sized twin cylinder bike around 150-160kg???? Of course low weight costs more money but it seems like they just by default go for "around 200kg" and then let the rest sort itself out. I'd be willing to trade down from my 990 adv and lose maybe 30-40 bhp if it meant I could also lose 30-50 kg but no one seems to be going for that.
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Old 11-07-2010, 12:16 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue&Yellow
What irritates me most about all these new bikes is that they're so damn heavy.

The new tiger 800 is 210 kg wet without fuel.

The Honda Transalp is 216 kg dry.

The 990 Adv is 199 kg dry.

The 800 GS is 185 kg dry (claimed weight... this has been up for some discussion...)

Even the single cyl Yamaha Tenere is 185kg dry.

And let's not even bring up the Honda Crosstour or Yamaha Super T... if the Honda comes in under 250 kg's I'll be surprised.

Can't anyone make a medium sized twin cylinder bike around 150-160kg???? Of course low weight costs more money but it seems like they just by default go for "around 200kg" and then let the rest sort itself out. I'd be willing to trade down from my 990 adv and lose maybe 30-40 bhp if it meant I could also lose 30-50 kg but no one seems to be going for that.
The Tiger is 210kg with fuel not without.
Dry weights mean nothing and mfg's have fibbed on them for years. Look how heavy the GS800 gets when "wet".
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Old 11-07-2010, 12:40 PM   #49
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These threads always provide me with a new perspective, some of it useful & informative. It seems a KTM or the Triumph would be ideal. I'd love a bike that's lighter than my current steed but provided the same power. My friends with BMW's don't seem to mind the recalls because they have more than one bike so being without the bike doesn't bother them. I'd love the 800 but can't afford to have a bike that may or may not be reliable. Looks used to be important but reliability is more important these days.

The glacier picture would make any bike look good, great photograph!
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Old 11-07-2010, 12:59 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gravehunter
The Tiger is 210kg with fuel not without.
Dry weights mean nothing and mfg's have fibbed on them for years. Look how heavy the GS800 gets when "wet".
Checked again and you're right it's 215 kg "ready to ride" with a 19 liter fuel capacity so that's roughly 196 wet without fuel. A lot better yes and on par with the 800GS and 990 Adv. I think I can tell you right now that I would pick it over the 800GS simply because of the triple engine, but over the 990 Adv.... hmmm, well that's the question now isn't it. Test rides will follow...
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Old 11-07-2010, 01:16 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue&Yellow
Checked again and you're right it's 215 kg "ready to ride" with a 19 liter fuel capacity so that's roughly 196 wet without fuel. A lot better yes and on par with the 800GS and 990 Adv. I think I can tell you right now that I would pick it over the 800GS simply because of the triple engine, but over the 990 Adv.... hmmm, well that's the question now isn't it. Test rides will follow...
I've been thinking the same thing(Tiger/990). But if the pricing comes in here where many think i could almost buy 2 Tigers for what the KTM costs. Thats alot of money to put in the bike or towards trips etc.. Was just looking at used 990's and they are pretty high. Roughly give or take about what a new Tiger will cost.
I also expect the Tiger will be more reliable and i have3 Triumph dealers in my area and only one KTM dealer.
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Old 11-07-2010, 01:59 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue&Yellow
Can't anyone make a medium sized twin cylinder bike around 150-160kg???? Of course low weight costs more money but it seems like they just by default go for "around 200kg" and then let the rest sort itself out. I'd be willing to trade down from my 990 adv and lose maybe 30-40 bhp if it meant I could also lose 30-50 kg but no one seems to be going for that.
The trade of you'll have to put up with would be unreliability, that's why the S10 is heavier instead of lighter, they don't want you to go into dark africa or sumped mongolia to experience a broken frame whithout a complete filmcrew to help you out...
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Old 11-07-2010, 02:07 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cug
I don't like Yamaha's or Honda's product and sales policies anymore.
Oh that's made clear without doubt, but can you possibly stop implying your own grudges into my writings, and stop poluting this thread with off topics coments about my disposition?

I *like* GSses, whe've had 6 of them in house, i'm just critical about the quality, which have plumetted in the years, especially since the componemts are made in China... The G650GS is beying built there in entirity btw...

Thats not bashing, like you imply, but stating fact.


You may be happy with your bike, as am i, but why isn't it alowed to state the obvious about the "made in china" quality of the bike?


But then again, this has gone far enough and is getting personal, lets talk bike, you really havent got any of the recalls?

P.S. Why would we keep this page on the air, if we wanted to bash BMW, just answer the question yourself, why would any one wanting to hurt BMW keep such a promoting page in the air???
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Old 11-07-2010, 02:19 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R3B
The trade of you'll have to put up with would be unreliability,
And why would that be? It might be more expensive, but why would it have to be less reliable?

If you say "given the same price and the exact same feature set, it's easier to make a heavier bike more reliable", that might be true.

I think one of the problems is that customers expect a bike to be cheap, reliable, and light. But you can pick only any two of those together. Never three.
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Old 11-07-2010, 06:04 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R3B
The trade of you'll have to put up with would be unreliability, that's why the S10 is heavier instead of lighter, they don't want you to go into dark africa or sumped mongolia to experience a broken frame whithout a complete filmcrew to help you out...
If you like to stick to facts as you previously stated, then please stop posting such misleading statements as off-road-adventure-worthiness of the Yamaha. This poorly designed bike that has to be towed home after a small off-road crash does not deserve any such credit.

As far as the cylinder head/cover damage issue of your GS goes, the picture that you posted as example showed NO crashbars. GSA has one of the best exoskeleton type crashbar/frame solutions available on the market. You had none installed, so why do you blame the manufacturer?
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Old 11-07-2010, 06:23 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cug
I think one of the problems is that customers expect a bike to be cheap, reliable, and light. But you can pick only any two of those together. Never three.
I can only agree, take the KTM 690 Enduro for instance; it currently weighs in at 138 kg dry. If you took that bike and made the engine a 650cc twin (parallel or V) you shouldn't have to increase the weight more than say 5-8 kg. And then you add a light rally top fairing and slightly bigger saddle and you should be able to get a smooth riding reliable bike that weighs in around 150 kg dry. The KTM 690 is already today as reliable as anything else we're discussing in here, and the service intervals are the same as the 990 Adv, so that isn't the issue.

Granted it would be an expensive bike, probably almost as expensive as the 990 Adv. But this kind of light twin cylinder bike would be the ultimate do it all bike in my mind, twin smoothness for the highway, acceptable weight for everything but the tightest offroad and suspension components to match.

And to say that the Yamaha is reliable because it's heavy is simply not true, the heavier the bike the more likely you are to break something in a fall. Big bikes crash hard, small bikes crash light. And then you factor in things like the Yamaha having its radiators on the outsides and I think an old air cooled Harley might have an equally fair chance of crossing Africa in one piece.... Heck - if I was to prepare for Africa I'd think long and hard about the puny yamaha TW200, I think those huge tires would be excellent and since you're not going to go above 60 mph anyway 16 bhp will be plenty. Besides, I have no interest of arriving in the villages like some recently descended astronaut, much better with something low key. To me a 260 kg adventure bike is just some kind of joke...

Blue&Yellow screwed with this post 11-07-2010 at 07:13 PM
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Old 11-07-2010, 08:00 PM   #57
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choices

I was a Honda guy last one was a vtec VFR loved it but it let me down with an electrical glitch in the middle of nowhere and the R1100 gs BMW never took me too far without lots of work or a tow truck. My Triumph Scrambler is solid and anolog easy to fix and not much plastic or techno crap just a twist and go. I would buy the tiger after owning my Scram its a great combo of killer sport bike adventure bike with a tough build and the Yamaha no problem if I had the cash Vmax R1 turbo sleds guitars pianos spy helicopters they do it all well if not better than most.
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Old 11-08-2010, 04:07 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A-Wind
If you like to stick to facts as you previously stated, then please stop posting such misleading statements as off-road-adventure-worthiness of the Yamaha. This poorly designed bike that has to be towed home after a small off-road crash does not deserve any such credit.

As far as the cylinder head/cover damage issue of your GS goes, the picture that you posted as example showed NO crashbars. GSA has one of the best exoskeleton type crashbar/frame solutions available on the market. You had none installed, so why do you blame the manufacturer?
Still breakin your flippant, foul smellin wind, huh windy? All your seat time in the showroom obvously makes you an expert on the S10, doesn't it? Yep, your wind breakin azz reads the whole bike by osmosis in just a few minutes.

There are plenty of 'exoskeleton type' solutions being developed for the S10 as well, and, with a proper bash plate affixed, it's superior (especially when compared to the GS) off road suspension, TC and ABS will become very apparent. The side mounted items you groan about allow the engine to be mounted further forward for a near 50/50 weight distribution...and they are easily protected by an 'exoskeleton.' And OH MY GOD the OIL FILTER!!...guess a decently designed bash plate couldn't possibly help that either...

What do you not understand about R3B happily owning SIX (6) GS's, but now says the Yamaha is better almost all respects. That's pretty good perspective to me. Oh, excuse me, you must be doing the osmosis thing again...how dare we question your posterior! You must have a pretty stong keyboard. Do you have a querty pattern imprinted upon your, umm, cheeks? Have you ever owned a GS or are you just posing again?

Keep sitting on the sidelines with your all-knowing buttocks and X-ray eyeballs while S10 owners have all the fun. Don't you dare take a test ride...that might weaken your resolve in waiting for the next Africa Twin to come along.

tremor38 screwed with this post 11-08-2010 at 04:27 AM
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Old 11-08-2010, 05:42 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tremor38
Still breakin your flippant, foul smellin wind, huh windy? All your seat time in the showroom obvously makes you an expert on the S10, doesn't it? Yep, your wind breakin azz reads the whole bike by osmosis in just a few minutes.

There are plenty of 'exoskeleton type' solutions being developed for the S10 as well, and, with a proper bash plate affixed, it's superior (especially when compared to the GS) off road suspension, TC and ABS will become very apparent. The side mounted items you groan about allow the engine to be mounted further forward for a near 50/50 weight distribution...and they are easily protected by an 'exoskeleton.' And OH MY GOD the OIL FILTER!!...guess a decently designed bash plate couldn't possibly help that either...

What do you not understand about R3B happily owning SIX (6) GS's, but now says the Yamaha is better almost all respects. That's pretty good perspective to me. Oh, excuse me, you must be doing the osmosis thing again...how dare we question your posterior! You must have a pretty stong keyboard. Do you have a querty pattern imprinted upon your, umm, cheeks? Have you ever owned a GS or are you just posing again?

Keep sitting on the sidelines with your all-knowing buttocks and X-ray eyeballs while S10 owners have all the fun. Don't you dare take a test ride...that might weaken your resolve in waiting for the next Africa Twin to come along.
You are taking this way too seriously. How old are you?

There is no testride necessary to identify the problems that I posted. Some experience and common sense is enough.
OK, you obviously don't get that. Be happy with your's (you can ride it to Disneyland).
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Old 11-08-2010, 10:37 AM   #60
R3B
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A-Wind
As far as the cylinder head/cover damage issue of your GS goes, the picture that you posted as example showed NO crashbars. GSA has one of the best exoskeleton type crashbar/frame solutions available on the market. You had none installed, so why do you blame the manufacturer?
Well you seem to be trawling, so i won't go into your Troll part...

For the rest is a bike that needs an Exoskeleton, imho opinion defunct.

But lets go your way, why are you stating the S10 is not crashworthy without Exosceleton, but don't say the same thing about the GS.

Fact is, if you put a crashbar on the GS it costs you dearly in grondclearence during cornering...

But just looking at the obvious facts, its simple, a GS has lots of weakpoints, where the S10 has only a probably radiator issue (they should beef-up the vent-cradle) but the frame won't break, the driveshaft wont break, the cardanic joint is serviceable, should i go on?

Oh and iv'e whipped my bike through lots of Off-road here in the surrounings and in Spain, even done the complete Bardenas Reales from South to North.

So it may have some hypotheticalk issues when crashing, and knowing how easy it is to loose the front of a GS (btdtx20+) i can understand you worry about such hypothetical issues, but you know what?

It just doesn't let you lose the front, or rear, the ABS is brilliant, and the TC cuts in so smooth and direct, not even the rear tries to take a pass at you, when opening the throttle to enthousiastically :-)

The latter is also something to be carefull with the GS...


So yes there is a hypothetical issue when crashing on the left, but the S10 just doesn't crash that easy :-)
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