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View Results: Which would you consider to buy?
Honda's New CrossTourer X-Tourer 80 15.75%
Yamaha Super Tenere 195 38.39%
Triumph Tiger 800XC 220 43.31%
BMW 800GS 48 9.45%
They're all WRONG!! Nobody's building the right bloody bike.....explanation below!! 42 8.27%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 508. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-12-2010, 04:54 PM   #91
Garp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tremor38
With Triumph having a notorious rep for being unreliable, I'm not sure how you can package that brand with the 'get me home' statement.
What on earth is that based on?
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Old 11-12-2010, 05:22 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by A Knight Who Says Ni
I don't think the modern triumph company has that rep at all. They have been making pretty solid bikes
agreed!
18k on a '06 daytona 675 that has seen 10-12 track days/year (since new)in addition to aggressive street riding. uses less than 1/4 q of oil b/n oil changes (3k)! '02 sprint with 23k. no problems. wifey is considering selling her beloved '00 yellow vfr in order to get one of the new trumpets! i wouldn't hesitate to buy a triumph!
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Old 11-12-2010, 07:36 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motomantra
They will never build the perfect adv bike because it has a different meaning for each of us.
For me, they are all too heavy. Some I would trust less to get me home. I'm hoping the new Triumph has a good run.
Where here does it say I'd buy one?
I just hope it works out for them, so BMW gets a wake-up.
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Old 11-22-2010, 09:39 PM   #94
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reliability

Bmw is just a fancy VW people like them nobody wants to work on them when they break down which is more often then most brands. The new Honda or any Honda with VFR blood is more high end Acura than civic and Triumph well you cant compare them to a car at least a modern one how ever my Scram has taken a pretty good beating along with my riding buddies Scram allso. Ive owned a GS loved it never took me anywhere without a tow truck and my VFR was just pure road sex no complaints except too much plastic it has everything a bike needs single sided swing arm with easy chain adjustment sweet V4 centre stand great fuel range and the best linked abs brakes. The new Honda could be a great tour bike but its not an Africa Twin its just a really porky Vstrom and the Triumph nails it half streetfighter half adventure bike I really think this bike will be a game changer and will open peoples eyes to do it all adventure bikes setting the bar for the big companys to follow except Yamaha with the S10 it will be tough to top comming from the people who bing R1s Vmax turbo sleds FJRs etc.
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Old 11-23-2010, 01:51 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by NONAME13
Bmw is just a fancy VW people like them nobody wants to work on them when they break down which is more often then most brands. The new Honda or any Honda with VFR blood is more high end Acura than civic and Triumph well you cant compare them to a car at least a modern one how ever my Scram has taken a pretty good beating along with my riding buddies Scram allso. Ive owned a GS loved it never took me anywhere without a tow truck and my VFR was just pure road sex no complaints except too much plastic it has everything a bike needs single sided swing arm with easy chain adjustment sweet V4 centre stand great fuel range and the best linked abs brakes. The new Honda could be a great tour bike but its not an Africa Twin its just a really porky Vstrom and the Triumph nails it half streetfighter half adventure bike I really think this bike will be a game changer and will open peoples eyes to do it all adventure bikes setting the bar for the big companys to follow except Yamaha with the S10 it will be tough to top comming from the people who bing R1s Vmax turbo sleds FJRs etc.
Google the meaning of 'run-on sentence'
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Old 11-23-2010, 11:45 AM   #96
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I currently ride a 04 BMW R1150 GSA, because it's the only bike currently marketed for someone of my size (6'8" and 325lbs) here in the U.S.. I had a 04 Suzuki DL1000 and it just didn't work for me. My legs got cramped (40" inseam). It was a very good bike, just not for me. I look at all these new bikes coming out and I hope there is one out there that can take the place of my BMW. I think the Yamaha Super Tenere looks promising, with bar risers and peg drops, but I haven't had a chance to throw a leg over one yet. I have had good luck with the 1150 GSA, I've got 60,000 miles on it with alot of those off road thou I must admit, I'm easy on the throttle and brakes, I'm no speed hound, but I don't mind bashing the bash plate to go where I want to go. I wish Honda would come out with their new Crosstour, but I'm afraid it will be several years getting to the U.S., so it comes back to the Super Tenere for me (if it fits me), and if Yamaha would build the World Crosser, then that would be the one! ! !
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Old 11-23-2010, 12:12 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdave-gs
I look at all these new bikes coming out and I hope there is one out there that can take the place of my BMW. I think the Yamaha Super Tenere looks promising, with bar risers and peg drops, but I haven't had a chance to throw a leg over one yet.
I'm 5'9, I threw a leg over the S-10 at the bike show this last weekend and was surprised that it was a bit SMALLER feeling then my 1200GS! It was not as tall as the GS (seat in low position) and it did not seem to have the height off the ground/ground clearance as the GS......and before somebody me or calls me a drinker, I just want to go on record; I like the S-10, although I have to admit I want it to do well because I want the regular Tenere. I will say I don't know which seat position the Yamaha was in but I sat on three different ones and they all didn't feel that tall to me.

If it makes you feel better you don't have to touch any major service on the S-10 until 24K miles Just an oil change.......can you say CHEAPO to own!! Wait, I mean "INEXPENSIVE"....to own. All I'll be able to do after this bike comes out is proudly stand by my BMW and say....."I own this to help support the local economy/BMW dealership."
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Old 11-23-2010, 12:41 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NONAME13
Bmw is just a fancy VW people like them nobody wants to work on them when they break down which is more often then most brands.
You could have stopped here - it was already enough bullshit for a single post.
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Old 11-23-2010, 12:50 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pcfly
I'm 5'9, I threw a leg over the S-10 at the bike show this last weekend and was surprised that it was a bit SMALLER feeling then my 1200GS! It was not as tall as the GS (seat in low position) and it did not seem to have the height off the ground/ground clearance as the GS......
I was on a Super Tenere last weekend, too, and I can confirm your feeling. It feels a bit (but not too much) smaller than the R1200GS. It probably feels a lot smaller than a GSA - I have a GS so I leave that impression to somebody else.

What also was very surprising is how well balanced (side to side) that thing is. Really easy to get up from the side stand, I'd say, it feels lighter doing this than the regular GS which - on paper - is at least 20 to 30kg lighter. Wiggling it around, pushing it back and forth, putting it on the center stand -- you can definitely feel the weight. It's no light / small motorcycle. But even my wife was surprised how easy it is to stand up and how low the seat feels in the low position - and she rides a DR200SE ...

I didn't have a chance to ride one, but so far it looks very promising. I probably won't give up my GS for it, at least not just because of it being here in the US. But I can say, if Yamaha brings demo models to the dealers I'll definitely give it a spin, and if it still feels good then it's in the "list of next bikes". As is the Tiger 800 (standard version), this one is even on top of that said list.

But right now I'm enjoying my GS on a 4 day trip through California - freaking cold around LA this morning ...
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Old 11-23-2010, 02:41 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cug
I didn't have a chance to ride one, but so far it looks very promising. I probably won't give up my GS for it, at least not just because of it being here in the US. But I can say, if Yamaha brings demo models to the dealers I'll definitely give it a spin, and if it still feels good then it's in the "list of next bikes". As is the Tiger 800 (standard version), this one is even on top of that said list.

But right now I'm enjoying my GS on a 4 day trip through California - freaking cold around LA this morning ...
Yamaha is on a high stakes gamble with the S10 - who knows if it will pay off. This market is crowded with GS wannabes. There is the Moto Guzzi Stelvio, the Multistrada 1200, and the Super Tenere to name a few. I don't know if the KTM adventure fits this market, since that bike is much more dirt oriented than all of these other proponents. But anyway, there is nothing wrong with bringing more competition to this segment of the market. Who will benefit will be the consumer with more options.

However, there is a new market segment that is growing perhaps at a higher growth rate than the 1200 adventure market is: that is the now called middle-weight (it used to be the large adventure segment in the old days of the BMW R80GS and the original TransAlps and Teneres). The F800GS has been the star of this segment size revival. But now the Tiger 800 has entered this market and there is a buzz about that bike - and people are looking at more options than "1200" for adventure bikes.

My guesstimation: The Tiger 800 will sell more and better than the S10. And the Tiger 800 will probably get a bigger chunk of the BMW1200GS market than people expect. The other markets it will rock are the more obvious ones, such as the V-Strom and the F800GS markets.

In other words, I believe Yamaha was too obsessed with the BMW R1200GS and may have missed the jackpot, no matter how good their bikes are (or Yamaha will start selling less expensive versions of the S10, perhaps? - Making the MCN "experts" right when they mentioned the cost of the S10?)

On weight alone, the Tiger has advantages on offroad as compared to the Tenere and the BMW1200GS (basic specs comparison, of course, but less weight goes a long way).

On road manners, it may do quite well despite being "smaller" than the 1200 bikes (the Ducati is an obvious exception here), according to first riding impressions of journalists. And it does better than the F800GS on road (according to same reviewers). This is the area where the F800GS misses out from the big bike market segment, BTW.

OK, only time will tell. Against it, Triumph has a few hurdles to overcome: this bike will have to prove itself in terms of reliability and adventure capacity, more than Yamaha needs to based on reputation. Although Triumph has fared well recently on reliability, few people know about it; and for the second issue, Triumph has no off road and real adventure tradition.

These are just thoughts, of course. All based on simple speculation. You more experienced guys here may know several things I don't about bikes and marketing that will completely blow my speculations out of the water.

Meanwhile, I'm enjoying the increasing options as I look to upgrade one of my bikes.

Lion
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Lion BR screwed with this post 11-23-2010 at 02:54 PM
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Old 11-24-2010, 05:38 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lion BR
Yamaha is on a high stakes gamble with the S10 - who knows if it will pay off.

In other words, I believe Yamaha was too obsessed with the BMW R1200GS and may have missed the jackpot, no matter how good their bikes are (or Yamaha will start selling less expensive versions of the S10, perhaps? - Making the MCN "experts" right when they mentioned the cost of the S10?)

Ehm go and read some real life American tests, well that sorts every dipute about the S10 beying a lemon, don't you tjhink?...

Quote:
To truly go off-road with the 2010 Yamaha Super Ténéré, buyers will have to invest in Yamaha’s X-Country Terrain Package, which sees a black frame engine guard, aluminum skid plate, and headlight protector added to the bike. This will tack on another $750 to the Super Ténéré’s base price of $13,900, and as tested with the 61-liter aluminum saddlebags, our Yamaha Super Ténéré cost $15,500. Even with these add-ons, the Super Ténéré prices very favorably against the BMW R1200GS, which costs well over $17,000 with similar amenities.
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Old 11-24-2010, 07:51 AM   #102
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Ehm go and read some real life American tests, well that sorts every dipute about the S10 beying a lemon, don't you tjhink?...
I bet you are using the word "lemon" in a different context than we know here in the US. A "lemon" here, and "lemon law" refers to a vehicle that has repeated problems (the Yugo, a Yugoslavian version of the Fiat 127, is a good example) and the law helps the consumer in the process of recovering the investment on such product. That is far from what I was saying.

What I was saying about Yamaha and the S10 is that they would have made, PERHAPS (IMHO), a better investment if they entered the market at the middle range, where the F800GS is and now the Tiger 800 and Tiger 800XC are entering. What the 800GS missed (better road manners) is found in the Tiger 800. And you still have a XC version.

On the same line of thought, perhaps Yamaha could sell a more stripped-down version of the S10, for the more off-road orientated market and with a more competitive price to take advantage of the mid-size market growth.

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Old 11-24-2010, 08:03 AM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lion BR
What I was saying about Yamaha and the S10 is that they would have made, PERHAPS (IMHO), a better investment if they entered the market at the middle range, where the F800GS is and now the Tiger 800 and Tiger 800XC are entering. What the 800GS missed (better road manners) is found in the Tiger 800. And you still have a XC version.
We've got a 660 for that, the XTZ750 was just to big for a napkin to small for the tablecloth as we say overhere.

Yamaha did just what they had to do, give us a *ALL* road, to Travel without toil, with relaxing lowdown grunt, something a 800 just can't deliver.

IMHO 800cc is a no go area, as seen with the R850GS, sales stopped at 1250 units or so (worldwide), although it was the smoother engine...

The market nowadays is dominated by old farts like me, and unlike me they don't want to be seen on anything under 1000cc blabbermouthing "what a childrens toy"...

And actually i'm verry happy with the extra weight, less sidewind surges, smoother running etc.

For the real fun on knobbies a 450 is the tool i would say.
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Old 11-24-2010, 08:13 AM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R3B
We've got a 660 for that, the XTZ750 was just to big for a napkin to small for the tablecloth as we say overhere.

Yamaha did just what they had to do, give us a *ALL* road, to Travel without toil, with relaxing lowdown grunt, something a 800 just can't deliver.

IMHO 800cc is a no go area, as seen with the R850GS, sales stopped at 1250 units or so (worldwide), although it was the smoother engine...

The market nowadays is dominated by old farts like me, and unlike me they don't want to be seen on anything under 1000cc blabbermouthing "what a childrens toy"...

And actually i'm verry happy with the extra weight, less sidewind surges, smoother running etc.

For the real fun on knobbies a 450 is the tool i would say.
That is a good point, about the size.
That's why I was pointing the Tiger 800, as people may say that bike actually offers big size performance on that 800 motor.

Do you know what are the worldwide projected sales for the S10?
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Old 11-24-2010, 08:48 AM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lion BR
That is a good point, about the size.
That's why I was pointing the Tiger 800, as people may say that bike actually offers big size performance on that 800 motor.

Do you know what are the worldwide projected sales for the S10?
Nope they are as tightlipped as they were about the launch :-(

But the not so accurate grapevine said it was about 3500 units EU wide till now.
The big problem is the economic downturn in Spain and Italy sales in big bikes plummeted there 24 and 32 %.
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