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Old 11-15-2010, 01:57 PM   #76
VertigoCycles
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjracer
Very real concerns and this will be addressed in future posts.
I'm going to sit on my hands for a while and watch this unfold.
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Old 11-16-2010, 04:28 PM   #77
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Now that the Head Tube is removed there in no turning back now, one way or another I was going to get this to work. If I couldn't, there would have been a very interesting Flee Market add.....

You can see here that the 950 Head Tube is a little longer than a 530 Head Tube.


And for good reason. This frame needs to handle twice the power and weight of the smaller bike w/o out flexing. You can also see how much larger the Head Tube Bearings are over stock, adding strength.

The Orange cover on the Head Tube is the Inspection/Service cover for the gears inside the head, sealed in by a rubber gasket. These gears are greased w/ synthetic grease and run.

Now that the frame is out of the CNC machine, it's ready to be put back on the bench. I put the 950 ADV engine up there on block and bolted the frame down around it. This is the first time for me to start trying to fit all these pieces together.

This might fit here....NO maybe over here. Well that won't work either.....maybe if I cut this off, and this......


Normally there is a bit of room to work with on the singles, but not so much with that rear cylinder in the way. Oh, ya....Don't forget the bank of carbs up top.

I start to work with the CAD to design some gear box mounts and print them out on paper to help me visualize this stuff. I don't have PRO-E, just POOR-E. HA-HA...bad joke.



I let this sit for a bit while I thought of placement ideas. I have some fee CNC time so I started to work on a Sprocket Fixture to test location for the second sprocket. Ordered up a single point Thread mill holder to allow me to make whatever size thread I needed. Much cheaper in the long run than buying a tap for these larger sizes.

I could have done this on the lathe, but I still needed to mill Hex Flats on with the mill, so I just did everything in the CNC in two holdings.
1) Mill the 32MM hex (same as Stock) and the Arbor Dia and length.
2) Flip it over holding onto the Arbor Dia in a vise with some jaws cut to hold that Dia. Mill the bore and Minor Dia, then Thread mill.

Takes a little program work and testing, but it's easier to hit a button and have the machine to it. Plus I'll have it figured out for when I need to make more out of Stainless in the future for the working part.

Not to bad.


This would act as the test "BOLT" to hold the counter shaft sprocket on.
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cjracer screwed with this post 11-16-2010 at 05:55 PM
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Old 11-16-2010, 06:54 PM   #78
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Man, I wish I had your mechanical knowledge and problem solving skills
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Old 11-18-2010, 09:47 AM   #79
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Old 11-19-2010, 10:15 AM   #80
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ahhh! i love people with CNC's in there garage! i take it by the youtube vids that its done in real life so get to i wanna see how many pounds of shit you had to stuff in a 5 pound bag for this one to work!
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Old 11-19-2010, 12:34 PM   #81
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I can't wait to see this in action with my own 2 eyes!
Nice job man
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Old 11-20-2010, 05:31 AM   #82
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Amazing

Craig,
Sorry I could not stop by and see the bike in person on my trip thru Wisconsin last week. Your talent amazes me and it is great that you took the time to document and share this build.

Doug
Sheridan, WY
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Old 11-26-2010, 08:34 AM   #83
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Thanks guys. Sorry for the delay. Holidays and all is a busy time around the homestead. Everyone is out shopping so, now back to the build-up.


With and adaptor built now to locate the sprocket on the output shaft, next up was to make a sprocket. Or rather modify a sprocket. Not knowing my exact gear ratio would mean that making a up a few sizes would be helpful down the road.

The 950 is geared a little higher than the 530. What came in the kit were 530 sprockets so I tried to calculate accordingly. If I just used the 530 sprocket my front end would not be spinning fast enough.

I machined the center out of the sprockets to fit on my adaptor. Now I can slide the gear back and forth to work out my side to side position with out being lock down yet.




The goal is to keep this as slim as possible.

Trying to find a place to stuff the 90 Degree gear box was going to be fun too.

Finally after lots of head scratching I pulled the Sawzall back out and made some thinking room.


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cjracer screwed with this post 11-26-2010 at 09:21 AM
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Old 11-26-2010, 09:13 AM   #84
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AWD please!!
 
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All the while in the back of my mind I was trying to think of ways to make this more of pure 950 dirt bike. I found a used 950 SE tank and started down that road.





I was surprised at how different the 950 SE and 950 ADV frames were. Geometry wise, they are the same from what I could see, but all the tabs and mounting points for stuff were way off.

I'd also need a new radiator, oil tank, engine mounts, sub-frame......the list goes on.

I could make new tabs for everything and an oil tank and....., but that would take more time and I wanted to keep the work load down a little bit. I had enough to do as it was. This first build is to prove out the idea.

I decided to work with what I have on hand at this time and look at the 950 SE next.



Digging through the box of parts, I assembled the gear box, carbon fiber slipper clutch, and drive shaft. Possitioned them in the frame like they would be on the 530.

Chain cover installed to help visualize how this would look.


I didn't like how far it stuck out on top. It would rub on your knee and push your leg out on the left side. Time to start moving things arounds. Always thinking "How am I going to hook this up to the head tube?"

I can't move it in any farther because the carbs are in the way.
So the gear box it too thick, need to modify this a little bit.
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Old 11-26-2010, 10:59 AM   #85
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Radioscopy of some dirt getoffs

CJ,

I looked at some video of getoffs on dirt, and basically it boils down to rear wheel loosing traction and trying to pass the front wheel, with the result being a circle traced by the rear wheel and highside the unfortunate outcome..
With this system, whenever rear wheel looses traction, front wheel pulls the whole bike forward with the result being back wheel falling back in line.
I am sure the big manufacturers will take a look at your practical experiment of bringing a big dual purpose AWD to the real world.
They will take notice, and the first one to bring such a bike to the market will make a killing.

I am interested!q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4gYh...eature=related
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Old 11-26-2010, 12:37 PM   #86
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device a tandem sprocket instead of side by side

Chris,


did you explore the possibility of a tandem sprocket instead of side by side?
It seems like there is some room behind the frame loop to put a dual sprocket coupled with a chain guide with rollers to keep the chain taut and drive the two sets of sprocket, and then it seems like it would be possible to install the clutch and gearbox where the toolbox is on a 950.
This would have the whole drive to the transfer inside the frame perimeter.



My $0.02

But you are the one doing the cutting/welding/sweating and experimenting though.

Maybe you have even explored that road?

Keep on the good work.
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Old 11-26-2010, 01:47 PM   #87
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Yep,

I didn't want to give up any of my storage space on an ADV bike, and the gear box itself was still too large even after some modifying. The gear box was proven and pretty compact. It survives on the 530, but I didn't want to change it in order to test it out on the 950. Part the durability testing on my part for the Christini System.

Moving it back it to that space I found I'd need to deal w/ the shock reservoir, preload adjuster and the rear collector. I run a 2-1 so I have some more room, but many love the sound of the Duals, so I kept working on it.
Looking at a 950 SE it seams there is "All the Room in the World", but an ADV is a bit more cramped. I guess building the harder version first was best as now the SE "should" be way easier. Plus I have plans for a custom subframe in the future and I didn't want to have to build 2 version.

But, that's just what I saw.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DakarBlues
Chris,

did you explore the possibility of a tandem sprocket instead of side by side?
It seems like there is some room behind the frame loop to put a dual sprocket coupled with a chain guide with rollers to keep the chain taut and drive the two sets of sprocket, and then it seems like it would be possible to install the clutch and gearbox where the toolbox is on a 950.
This would have the whole drive to the transfer inside the frame perimeter.



My $0.02

But you are the one doing the cutting/welding/sweating and experimenting though.

Maybe you have even explored that road?

Keep on the good work.
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Old 11-26-2010, 07:32 PM   #88
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wow just caught up to this thread.

Great work CJ!
At this point I'm surprised that KTM hasn't adopted you yet...
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Old 11-26-2010, 09:25 PM   #89
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SSSSSHHHHHHHHH - dont say that, could you imagine what all of CJ's gear would cost then....
But I suppose all those little pesky bike problems we love would be solved and we'd have nothing to winge about...
Now back to the story....

Pete
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Old 11-27-2010, 07:27 PM   #90
cjracer OP
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I see we flipped the next page:

Back to this pic:


In the above pic, you can see a scribe line in the RED. That's the top of the input shaft. I needed to put the gear box on a diet, so into the CNC it went.


I cut it down as thin as the guts would allow.

But with all these pesky frame rails in the way it was tough to eye ball how things would fit together and line up. I thought "I could always weld them back in if need be, right????"

So let's get rid of this....




It's easy to just grab the Sawzall and cut away, but you can make a mess of it real quick and set yourself further back. I still needed to machine some billet parts.



Back to the sketch pad and CAD to draw up a Gear box mount/ Frame support piece to weld in.

That done and tools in the CNC, I'm ready to make chips. I love the sound a CNC machine makes when removing metal in a controlled manner. I guess that's what drives me to do work on this stuff, even when people stop by and ask "What's that NOISE?", Then I show them the cut apart frame and go over my ideas. They look at me as if my Space Ship is parked out back.

So after a few hours of work I had the inside roughed out, waiting to finish up the Finish bore sizes for the bearings.


Flip is over and finish up the back. Taking lighter cuts so it doesn't fly out and hit me in the head.


In about 8-10hrs (Drawing sketch-CAD drawing-Program-Tool Set up-Pick up my Zeros-Prove out the program-First Prototype part) I end up with this steel part.
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cjracer screwed with this post 11-27-2010 at 07:50 PM
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