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Old 11-13-2010, 05:12 PM   #16
duck
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I just remembered that a riding buddy of mine I was riding in CA with a few weeks ago had an Avon on the rear. I think it was a Storm II. He said that the rear end didn't feel nearly as planted as riding on a Pilot Road II so he's now ditched it and gone back to a PR II. (I emailed him a link to this thread.)
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Old 11-13-2010, 05:16 PM   #17
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You are very lucky to be alive. I found reading about your experience riding out the failure inspirational. Great job! And really glad you weren't hurt worse.

I know your experience with three of the same tires sounds damning for the Avon Storm 2 Ultra as a whole but it is important to keep in mind that your experience with the first 2 tires offers no predictive value for the failure you experienced on the 3rd tire.

I say this because your tire failure, horrendous as it was, does not provide evidence that the Storm 2 Ultras, as a whole are dangerous, only that the tire you were riding was dangerous.
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Old 11-13-2010, 09:12 PM   #18
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im thinking the duck is talking about me...

i scored a set of avon storm tires a few years ago when they 1st hit the market... i had to take them off at 3,000 miles cause i couldnt hold onto the handlebars they wobbled so bad... the wobble 1st occurred about 1k... avon even sent a warranty set to a bmw dealer for me for a warranty replacement deal due to a "radial issue" in my size...

the bmw dealer put them on and the same thing happened within 100 miles... makes you wonder if its the motobrick instead of the tires... i went to a motobrick suspension specialists... he asked me to push the moto... i obliged... he said its your tires...

he explained how the rear tire had squished down and lots its character... he went into greater detail but thats for another day... he told me to score a set of new tires and come back... i obliged... wobble gone... i vowed never another avon...

2010 has been the year of motobrick tire experimentation and avon had a new tire... the avon storm ultra 2 in 120/70/17 front n 160/60/18 rear... i wanted to try it because it was getting really good reviews...

at 2k i got a wobble... thought it was my steering head bearings... i could feel a slight wobble at slow speeds and at highway speeds... i would let go of the handle bars between 25 n 35 mph and it was a violent wobble... every time i would lean i felt like i was gonna slide out... by 2.5k the dry grip was greatly diminished... the wet grip was gone...





unrideable in less than 2 months at 3107 miles... so i scored a set of michelin pilot road 2s...

guess what... no wobble and im firmly planted... im thinking it had to be the low mileage avon storm ultra 2s that was causing the wobble and the treacherous input...

it took nothing but a tire change to get me back in the game... i blasted the mountains today... feels good to have smooth n steady gripp again...

yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeheeeeeeeee...

ravenranger... you are highly skilled and extremely lucky... wishing you the best...

j o
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Old 11-13-2010, 09:56 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ravenranger
Don't know yet - a lot depends on the insurance company and I haven't gotten a final word from them yet. They only went out to look at it yesterday!

You're right, though, it doesn't look as bad as it might but when you start adding things up......just the rear panniers are about $2K each. Every bit of plastic either has some broken tabs or scrapes (about another $2K). The tank is dented ($600). The handle bars are toast (so who knows how the forks faired). The major electronics (ECU, etc) were in the tail piece and got shredded by the tire (looking at another $1-2K there). Rear rim is toast and don't know if the transmission was affected by the final lock-up or not. So, it definitely starts adding up.

However, if you're interested in a wicked street-fighter, let me know and I'll give you first dibs on salvage.....
Even a scratch in the frame gets a replacement there as well. Damage to the swing arm? It is most likely totalled.
Do you know if the tire is in the correct weight rating?
I know Michelin sells a 'b' model of the PR2 for our heavier bikes (it's whats on the K1200GT right now and I like it). The funny thing there is that they both have the same load rating listed on the books, but the 'b' model supposedly (according to internet forums like this) gives better mileage on the bigger bikes.

I am really glad you faired so well! I am also glad there were other people to stop and help! Perhaps you can use those pictures in your classes?
Your accident is exactly why I always where a full face helmet, no matter the temperature, and you also have inspired me to get some riding pants!

Impact is hard on our gear and usually blows the stitching. Motoport claims the best stitching in the biz but I haven't gotten around to their stuff yet.

When Becky buys your street-fighter bike, I have a nice BMW...
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Old 11-14-2010, 06:55 AM   #20
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Raven,

Glad to hear that you are fine for the most part. That was quite a fall you took. The event could have been much worse but your protective gear and your motorcycle skills helped you come out on top. Hope to see you at RG sometime again.

Ron
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Old 11-14-2010, 11:39 AM   #21
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avon needs to pay you A LOT of $$$ for what you went through.

i don't know much about avon but i have always thought of them as second-rate...like shinko.

abe
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Old 11-14-2010, 12:37 PM   #22
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Tire is correct size, speed, and weight rating.

Tire was mounted with the correct rotation.

Tire had less than 2000 miles on it.

Tire was on bike 11 days.

It was mounted at Daytona Beach Cycle Gear and balanced out beautifully.

Currently, I have not contacted Avon directly but will. I will also be filing a formal report with the NHTSA. My insurance agency has not finished figuring out what they are doing but, so far, do not seem interested in the tire failure angle. Depending on what they decide, the pay-out, the salvage, and how long I'm willing to be bike-less will determine if I decide to have the tire investigated myself. I did find a company that investigates tire failure and, based on photos, they were shocked to see this on a motorcycle tire and felt that it is highly likely a defect. However, to get it investigated would cost about $2K out of my pocket and I'd have to buy back the bike as salvage, then move it from Roswell to Phoenix for the investigation. So......as you can see, there's a lot to consider.

Mostly, I wanted folks to be aware there's potentially an issue and to check your tires very carefully.
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Old 11-14-2010, 12:41 PM   #23
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Someone forwarded me this link to the Blackbird (CBRXX) forum where someone had a bad Storm.....
http://www.cbr1100xx.org/forums/inde...howtopic=68174
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Old 11-14-2010, 05:38 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ravenranger
Tire is correct size, speed, and weight rating.

Tire was mounted with the correct rotation.

Tire had less than 2000 miles on it.

Tire was on bike 11 days.

It was mounted at Daytona Beach Cycle Gear and balanced out beautifully.

What's the date of manufacture on the tire?
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Old 11-14-2010, 06:10 PM   #25
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ravenranger

People are saying you are a good rider. Does it make you feel strange that people are saying that yet you crashed? You made the right choice to stick with the bike and do what you could to control it. You sound like a good rider to me.

I had an "accident" on my BMW R1100s where the rear wheel came off (wheel bolts crossthreaded) and lodged under the bike. I rode it to the shoulder, full rear skid and did not go down, fortunately, I was in a 35mph zone and stayed upright. Eye witness and general great guy who gave me a ride to my truck said I must be some great rider to have ridden it out. I said "what else was I going to do? I had no choice really, but thanks. It was crazy." It did make me feel strange. I lost control of my bike and had it not been for the shoulder, I would have been screwed, yet I was getting praise for my skillz. I found it strange and wondered if you did too? I also wonder, did you have any other options or was it just reflex and kind of a general feeling of "I can make it to the median."?

Thanks for posting. That absolutely looks like a delaminated tire to me, after seeing a few old car tires do that.
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Old 11-15-2010, 02:43 AM   #26
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Wow. that the type tire delamination I ve seen from semi trailer tires but never one a bike. Glad you made it out alive. There no way that is anything but a defective tire.
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Old 11-15-2010, 05:40 AM   #27
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Eek Omg

Amazing that you got through a major delamination like that with so little damage ! I agree with the others here that you are a very lucky guy & a talented rider ravenranger.

I've just put a new set of storm ultra2's on my CB1300F, I too have felt they are not quite as good as what I had on before (conti road attack rear & michelin pr2 front). The feeling is somewhat vague in the dry & uninspiring to say the least in wet conditions. I had thought it was just me & am letting the tires wear in before I make a definate conclusion. My ultra 2's have around 1,000k on them @ the moment. Thank you for this thread, I'll be keeping a very close watch on these tires from now on.
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Old 11-15-2010, 06:50 AM   #28
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My first question is how much stuff did you have in the saddlebags and the tail trunk?

Second, on the Avon web page, they do not have any "tyres" suggested for the ST1300.

Quote:
ST1300

Front size:
120/70ZR18 No Avon Tyre Fitment


Rear size:
170/60ZR17 No Avon Tyre Fitment


http://www.avon-tyres.co.uk/motorbike/st-1300
The Storm 2 Ultra has a load rating of 72 - that is 783 pounds.

The ST1300 itself weights about 650 pounds on its own, it would not be hard to exceed the weight limit with a rider, passenger and gear. Sure, you're running on both front and rear tires, but I can see the weight being biased towards the rear, especially is a passenger is ever on board and those saddlebags/tailtrunk being packed.

There is a reason Avon does not suggest this tire on the ST1300, and I see no reason for any lawsuits against them, if anything, look yourself in the mirror and slap yourself silly for not doing more research.

Shit happens, it just does - and if you are running a tire that is not recommended by the manufacturer for your bike and you have a failure, well, chalk it up to experience.

As for the "tyre" pressure, you would of needed to be running it at the maximum rated pressure, as that is where the maximum weight capacity it generally at - any lower, you're doomed for a failure on a bike as massive as the ST1300.

Also, if is was hot outside, that adds to the problems, especially with a tyre not designed for the bike.

And if you picked up a nail or anything else that may of deflated the tire, or caused a loss of pressure, that too may cause the failure - it appears there may be a blow out point in the tire, maybe you did hit a nail or something, who knows, lots of possibilities.



I've seen too many cheapskate GoldWing owners run into a very similar problem. And I'm not saying you are/were a cheapskate, just possibly mis-guided.

I'm glad you were not seriously hurt.

Lesson learned, I hope.

Oh, Avon makes pretty decent tires - they are a step above the Shinko or Maxxis (Cheng Shin) brands IMO, maybe two or three or four step!





Big Steve screwed with this post 11-15-2010 at 07:08 AM
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Old 11-15-2010, 07:24 AM   #29
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Sounds like you did an amazing job of riding it out. Is it just me, or does it look like the tire rotation arrow is pointing in the wrong direction on that close up of the rear wheel? Maybe I'm seeing something else.
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Old 11-15-2010, 07:42 AM   #30
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That's a rough day to be sure! Very glad you aren't hurt and sorry to see your fine machine damages.

I wouldn't write avon off altogether. I've put over 60k on storms and their predecessors (haven't had ultra IIs yet though) and have yet to find another tire that works as well for me (tried metzlers, dunlops, bridgestones and pilot roads and pilot road IIs - didn't really like any of them). I get great mileage, grip and handling traits with them. I also found that my avons consistently required much less balance weight than the others, suggesting to me that maybe they are a bit more careful in the mfg process.

I've no idea why your tire came apart, it certainly shouldn't do that. Maybe avon made a bad batch of tires, if so, they need to recall them pronto.

For what its worth, I haven't tried them on a bike anywhere near as heavy as yours (my stuff is all well under 500lbs wet/loaded and I'm ~160lbs). Still, a tire shouldn't fly apart, even if a bit overloaded or under inflated. Only causes I can think of other than a tire defect would be if some part on your bike rubs/hits the tire at times or if there was some object in the road that tore it up. Neither seems super likely, but since you went through 3 in a row I might wonder a bit about something specific to your situation. Maybe really wacky installation procedure or something. Even if they are making some defective tires, chances that you'd get 3 of them in a row is pretty darn slim. If something near even a third of all produced were bad, there'd be tens of thousands of crashes by now and a major recall and law suit I'm sure. If say 10% of the tires are bad, which I still think is way more than is likely, chances of getting three in a row would be (1/10)^3 = 1/1,000.
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