ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Thumpers
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 12-28-2010, 08:34 AM   #16
Velociraptor
TrackBum
 
Joined: Apr 2005
Location: Seattle
Oddometer: 1,043
Quote:
Originally Posted by dirtinblood View Post
I've had trouble with my '08 and then again with my '09 690. it appears to be intermitent at first, has you chasing electrical faults, but ends up being a filter issue in the end. I replaced the whole pump/filter assembly in the '08 to solve the problem. The real issue was the filter though. It's tendancy to clog up easily led to unusual strain on the pump. My '09 started to show the same symptoms, so I started to use fuel injector cleaner on a regular basis (every 3 or 4 tanks). The symptom have not returned for the last 2000km. Keep the filter clean, and the pump will be fine.
I am doing the same. I use Red Line Complete Fuel System Cleaner. Who knows if it works. My 690r has 6,000 miles and no issues but that is fairly low mileage. I have a complete fuel pump replacement assembly just in case.
__________________
2014 KTM EXC 500
2014 KTM 1290 Superduke R
2009 KTM 690r Enduro SOLD
2002 RC51 SOLD
2010 KTM 990 Supermoto R SOLD
Velociraptor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2010, 08:48 AM   #17
AustinJake
TE450-KLE-FXDWG
 
AustinJake's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2010
Location: Austin, TX
Oddometer: 3,669
If you chase electrical and filter issues and those dont cure it (didnt for mine) I have one more take on this subject. My 2010 Husky was manufactured in Sep 2009. It was sold and put into service in July 2010. I bought it used in Nov 2010 with 22 miles on it.! The filters, both the pre-filter that keeps crud out of the pump and the fuel filter are brand new/spotless. The bike would run and sometimes quit. I have video of it idling in my garage and just flat running out of gas. Key off/key on, no pump prime whir. Wait awhile, it would whir, prime, and away I would go until, one time, going 70 mph, see a stoplight ahead, start throttling down, and stop at the light, boom, dies, no gas, no pump, push it away from the light, on a bike with less than 100 miles on it. Go riding, stop to take a pic, get back on, no fuel pump whir, no prime, no start, wait 20 minutes, away we go again.

It is my theory (especially on my bike that sat for months and months with no riding) that varnish builds up in the small space in between the fuel pump wall and the fan vane. If the cooling gasoline is not kept flowing fast enough, the parts swell up slightly and the pump locks down, usually when the motor/pump is switched off. Since the pump is submerged, some amount of time will eventually shrink the pump parts and it will prime and pump.

I actually improved my pump somewhat by removing it from the tank, submerging it in almost pure injector cleaner, and applying voltage to the pump and letting it pump injector cleaner for about 5 minutes, in a laid-down empty oil jug lined with a plastic bag. The bike did better than before, but the pump still locks down at times.

My 2 cents.
__________________
____________________________________
Get fit. Stay safe. Enjoy life. Learn something to help someone in need.

AustinJake screwed with this post 12-28-2010 at 08:55 AM
AustinJake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2010, 07:04 AM   #18
DirtJack OP
Adventurer
 
DirtJack's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Oddometer: 1,189
Quote:
Originally Posted by dirtinblood View Post
I've had trouble with my '08 and then again with my '09 690. it appears to be intermitent at first, has you chasing electrical faults, but ends up being a filter issue in the end. I replaced the whole pump/filter assembly in the '08 to solve the problem. The real issue was the filter though. It's tendancy to clog up easily led to unusual strain on the pump. My '09 started to show the same symptoms, so I started to use fuel injector cleaner on a regular basis (every 3 or 4 tanks). The symptom have not returned for the last 2000km. Keep the filter clean, and the pump will be fine.
I should have mentioned that I have been doing the injector cleaner thing as well and it seems to help (reducing intermittent frequency). I ride my bike often enough I don't think it is a varnish build-up problem. I will replace the filter as soon as I get one and also check/clean the screen.
__________________
Remember, you're reading this on the Internet and it was written by a guy who can remember stuff which never happened.
2014 KTM 1190 Adventure R
2008 KTM 300 XC (plated)
2008 KTM 690 Enduro
DirtJack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2010, 07:09 AM   #19
DirtJack OP
Adventurer
 
DirtJack's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Oddometer: 1,189
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNC View Post
Not to threadjack, but what did you think of BBRSP? I went there alone earlier this month, and you are absolutely correct...not the kind of place you want a bad failure of any kind that you can't fix in the field. Almost no one goes there and getting a vehicle in to pick up your bike after a long walk on a few of those primitive roads might be challenging. I wasn't worried about fuel delivery on my carbed KLX300S, but a bad crash or other total failure on the bike had me thinking. I loved that place...amazingly remote and hardly a tourist to be found.
I agree that this is a great place to ride, I'll be going back repeatedly. I also recommend staying in the bunkhouse and have the rangers cook you supper and breakfast. Also agree that this is not a place to ride alone. You can also camp if you prefer and still eat in the bunkhouse; they are priced separately.
__________________
Remember, you're reading this on the Internet and it was written by a guy who can remember stuff which never happened.
2014 KTM 1190 Adventure R
2008 KTM 300 XC (plated)
2008 KTM 690 Enduro
DirtJack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2011, 08:25 AM   #20
DirtJack OP
Adventurer
 
DirtJack's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Oddometer: 1,189
I still haven't gone inside the tank yet (been too busy with other stuff and riding my other bikes). However I did use the 690 last weekend on the Nueces Canyon ride (480 miles total in 2 days) and the bike ran flawlessly. The only thing I've done so far to fix the problem is to clean and grease the relevant electrical connections and use some injector cleaner in the tank. Of course, I don't believe the problem is fixed and I do plan to look at the fuel pump, screen and filter as soon as I receive the necessary clamps.
__________________
Remember, you're reading this on the Internet and it was written by a guy who can remember stuff which never happened.
2014 KTM 1190 Adventure R
2008 KTM 300 XC (plated)
2008 KTM 690 Enduro
DirtJack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2011, 08:44 AM   #21
MookieBlaylock
Beastly Adventurer
 
MookieBlaylock's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2004
Location: IntheeaglewingpalaceoftheQueenChinee
Oddometer: 2,581
fuel cleaner probably a good idea, also something to deal with phase separation with the the e10 gas we get now, especially if the bike sits for a while at a time. When i pulled the pump there was this black stuff in the filter which i guess was carbon from the pump, but also it looked as though there was some fluid other than gas in there too.
MookieBlaylock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2011, 09:05 AM   #22
Velociraptor
TrackBum
 
Joined: Apr 2005
Location: Seattle
Oddometer: 1,043
As soon as my Rally Raid tanks come in I am going to have a look at the fuel filter. I have a spare so will probably change it out anyway. I wonder about the varnish buildup issue too.
__________________
2014 KTM EXC 500
2014 KTM 1290 Superduke R
2009 KTM 690r Enduro SOLD
2002 RC51 SOLD
2010 KTM 990 Supermoto R SOLD
Velociraptor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2011, 09:29 PM   #23
Gros Buck
Beef = Packed Vegetables
 
Gros Buck's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Quebec City, Canada
Oddometer: 847
So ???

Anyone has a clue about the problematic 690 fuel pump ???

Paul Jr oO 8
__________________
KTM690r 2011
Gros Buck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2011, 11:07 PM   #24
grimripper
1pissanter
 
grimripper's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2010
Location: Byron Bay
Oddometer: 199
No.

I havn't had any probs for a while.

Just to recount ; the last problem i had at 19500km was after leaving the bike in a hot shed shed for 3 weeks at around 40-50 celsius for part days, whilst on holiday.
I had to remove the airfilter and spray aerostart (ether ?) to get her going.
It cranked well, by the way, battery wise.

Before that at around 12000 ( and i dont think either issue was particularly pump related, rather more EFI or bad fuel, perhaps.) the efi light would come on after starting and caused a real loud exhaust note to emanate.

An ignition recycle has always fixed this. I've had it about 5 times.

It has usually occurred when restarting after a good run (tankfull and in heat above 45 deg celcius, say after a refuel stop) though a couple of times this has not been the scenario.

I have become used to doing regular 15 minute ecu sensor resets + the throtle rollon/off which seems to be beneficial towards keeping the gremlins at bay.l :)

This old 205 for reference
__________________
KTM 69TE
watch this pace

grimripper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2011, 08:58 AM   #25
Kawidad
Beastly Adventurer
 
Kawidad's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Central Coast, Cal
Oddometer: 4,578
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ-Brett View Post
Fuel pump brush problems usually just make the pump die and not run, and if they go erratic, it usually dies quickly, but anything is possible.
What about the fuel pump relay?
Maybe that is erratic.
I have to respectfully disagree. When I had my 950 Adventure it had the same type of running issues that drove me nutz. I finally tracked it down to the fuel pump. It worked, but was intermittent and lower pressures than spec; all of which caused the bike to run, but run horribly.

I know the KTM factory sometimes uses low quality bearings that I suspect were low bid items, so that may be in play for fuel pumps too.
__________________
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? - Juvenal
(Who watches the watchers)
Kawidad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2011, 10:25 AM   #26
beaney
rally racer
 
beaney's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Location: uk, or on a rally.
Oddometer: 124
My take on the fuel pump problems are..

It appears that most failures are in the US and Aus, and not many in europe. I wonder if the problem is caused by the ethonol in the fuel as we in europe have a very small % added compared to other markets.
I know that the ethonal has caused problems by attacking carbon and glass fibre tanks, so is it attacking the carbon brushes???

I know that the US and Aus markets are bigger and that euro failures may not be reported.

But maybe its a cause.
__________________
690 enduro/ rally
350 exc
RALLY-RAIDPRODUCTS.CO.UK

beaney screwed with this post 03-19-2011 at 01:46 PM
beaney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2011, 05:06 PM   #27
DirtJack OP
Adventurer
 
DirtJack's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Oddometer: 1,189
My bike is running great again. All I have done so far is to use dielectric grease on appropriate connectors and put some injector cleaner in the tank a few times. Still haven't taken time to go in the tank and check/replace fuel filter and screen. Too busy riding my other bikes, but have added about another 1000 miles to the 690 since the last occurrence of the fuel pump failing to spin up when the ignition is turned on. Last time I had a problem was during a November ride at Big Bend. (Edit) I just forgot, I did replace the battery as the original had some problems cranking at sufficient speed to start the bike even after a full charge.
__________________
Remember, you're reading this on the Internet and it was written by a guy who can remember stuff which never happened.
2014 KTM 1190 Adventure R
2008 KTM 300 XC (plated)
2008 KTM 690 Enduro

DirtJack screwed with this post 03-19-2011 at 05:15 PM
DirtJack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2011, 06:43 PM   #28
Gros Buck
Beef = Packed Vegetables
 
Gros Buck's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Quebec City, Canada
Oddometer: 847
Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtJack View Post
My bike is running great again. All I have done so far is to use dielectric grease on appropriate connectors and put some injector cleaner in the tank a few times. Still haven't taken time to go in the tank and check/replace fuel filter and screen. Too busy riding my other bikes, but have added about another 1000 miles to the 690 since the last occurrence of the fuel pump failing to spin up when the ignition is turned on. Last time I had a problem was during a November ride at Big Bend. (Edit) I just forgot, I did replace the battery as the original had some problems cranking at sufficient speed to start the bike even after a full charge.
Periodic injector cleaner ...

Maybe

Anybody has further comments on this ???

Paul Jr oO 8
__________________
KTM690r 2011
Gros Buck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2011, 07:13 PM   #29
Visigothic
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Visigothic's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2010
Oddometer: 182
This is what keeps me looking at the 530exc for a DS being that I'm one state over and a minimum of 6 hours away from a KTM street dealer. Why don't they just put a carb. on it for the U.S. market and be done with it?

EFI = It's like government, it either works or it doesn't.
Visigothic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2011, 07:32 PM   #30
DirtJack OP
Adventurer
 
DirtJack's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Oddometer: 1,189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gros Buck View Post
Periodic injector cleaner ...

Maybe

Anybody has further comments on this ???

Paul Jr oO 8
I agree.

It's my guess that we still don't know what the problem is (we are probably not even close). I don't have a theory which is consistent with just waiting a while for the problem to go away and injector cleaner (solvent) being helpful, except a partially clogged screen at the pump intake.
__________________
Remember, you're reading this on the Internet and it was written by a guy who can remember stuff which never happened.
2014 KTM 1190 Adventure R
2008 KTM 300 XC (plated)
2008 KTM 690 Enduro
DirtJack is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 09:06 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014