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Old 02-21-2011, 04:20 PM   #16
team ftb
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Thanks Safariberg and Joybo1 for the feedback. I'm currently abusing a KTM 525 and always keeping my eyes open for its next replacement for long dual sport rides and your threads and postings have been insightful. Thank you.

The "Berg has some interesting design features that attract me like the airbox location thats high and centered and looks like it may deliver cleaner air to the airbox and keep it out of the water and dust better than the KTM. Also the 'Bergs cylinder layout seems tempting to taste. However the Achilles heel regarding the Berg for me is the design teams decision to omit a kickstarter from a hard core Enduro bike. I wish the designers re-thought this issue.

Here's a sample of a dilemma I fear on the 'Berg.



The above pic I had been riding some technical enduro terrain for about 30 minutes with the fan churning away trying to keep the motor cool. I then dropped into a sandwash for a few hundred yards, clipped a rock and got swapped off the bike. No problem, blink my eyes to clear the stars, pick the bike up, pull in the clutch and hit the start button. A laboring slow groan is emitted as the starter moves like its stuck in peanut butter. Damn a weak battery that can't turn the engine over. I could hook up my mini jumper cables (as noted above) to the battery and get my riding buddy to jump me but sadly I'm alone on this ride. How long will it take for someone else to come down the sandwash??? Erm rural Thailand jungle..............maybe awhile................ like a couple days. I wish big bore four strokes bump started like a 250 two stroke but sadly they don't, they're a bitch. I walk over to the shade and take a break, and snapped this pic. Luckily the KTM has a kickstarter so I just walked back, kicked it back to life and continued on the mjultiday ride.

The Berg would have given me a bit more of a headache in the above situation. Sure I could always bring a backup battery as LukasM suggested however like he stated, kicking it over is certainly a lot easier. Has anybody in the Berg grapevine heard of their intention to ever add a kickstarter????

Another question if I may. Have the factories always run the FI on the rally bikes or am I remembering correctly that they also swapped back to carbs for reliability at some point?
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Old 02-21-2011, 04:49 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by team ftb View Post
Has anybody in the Berg grapevine heard of their intention to ever add a kickstarter???? I can confidently say that it will never happen..........I also predict that with in 5 years you will not be able to buy an enduro bike with a kickstarter as they will have all gone EFI and no kicker...............its like the electric start button, KTM did it first in 2000 by 2005 all serious enduros had electric buttons

Another question if I may. Have the factories always run the FI on the rally bikes or am I remembering correctly that they also swapped back to carbs for reliability at some point?
The factory 620/640/660/690 rally bikes have never been EFI and still arnt for the 450RR...........be interesting to see when they go EFI............that said they also do not have a kickstarter
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Old 02-21-2011, 05:19 PM   #18
team ftb
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Sorry for the confusion as I knew the earlier KTM rallyy bikes were carbed but was not sure of the 690. Inrteresting that the factories are are not comfortable with it on the rally bikes just yet.

Thanks for the insight on the Berg and kickstarting. Sad in my eyes as I've had too many times that i have had to rely on the kickstarter as shown above. Hopefully I'm not alone and KTM will keep it from becoming obsolete. Going FI in itself is not reason to abondon a kickstarter. Witess the RMZ, and CRF motocrossers that are FI and kickstart only so it can be done.

Jeez, is my mind turning into one of an ole geezer hoping for kickstarters to be kept on dirt bikes?
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Old 02-21-2011, 09:45 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by troy safari carpente View Post
To begin with, only the DAKAR rally (at least at present) has imposed the 450cc limit... and that is ONLY for the ASO list of "Elite" riders (a list of the 20 - 30 top rally pro's and expert level riders as determined from the ASO/FIM rankings over the last few seasons). All other riders are still permitted to use open capacity machines up to 700cc (super prod) or 900cc for marathon (standard) machines.


Is this correct?

... even for Dakar 2012?

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Old 02-21-2011, 09:54 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by huskyte610e View Post


Is this correct?

... even for Dakar 2012?

No on both counts

for Dakar 2012 ASO has said for the last couple of years that ALL moto riders will be 450cc max..................but be interested to see if they are having 2nd thoughts about this for the non-elite guys though

for 2011 FIM championship rallies FIM are about to let all know that only the 450cc class will be world championship status, if you ride a open class bike you can still ride in these events but only for the event class category placings not for points in a world championship series of any kind.

So yes that now makes FIM CCWC and Dakar 450cc only

Expect FIM announcement soon


but still lots of other rallies for open class bikes
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Old 02-21-2011, 10:54 PM   #21
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If ASo goes back to 690 ruling for privateers and Malles moto....well I am gonna scream.

I missed a good 690 as it won't be allowed. Anyway i am gonna still live according to the 450 rule fro now.
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Old 02-21-2011, 11:06 PM   #22
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If ASo goes back to 690 ruling for privateers and Malles moto....well I am gonna scream.

I missed a good 690 as it won't be allowed. Anyway i am gonna still live according to the 450 rule fro now.
I reckon you are safe, cant really see them changing their minds
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Old 02-21-2011, 11:14 PM   #23
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I will be honest. I love Yamaha, but for Dakar I wouldn't mind a 690RR so much less maintenance.
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Old 02-21-2011, 11:16 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Tau Anvil View Post
I will be honest. I love Yamaha, but for Dakar I wouldn't mind a 690RR so much less maintenance.
I have a fully equipped, fully rebuilt engine ( Austria) ready to race....if you are interested, please PM me.
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Old 02-21-2011, 11:19 PM   #25
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I have a fully equipped, fully rebuilt engine ( Austria) ready to race....if you are interested, please PM me.
Unless the 450 rule changes I will pass thx.....
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Old 02-22-2011, 06:09 AM   #26
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I have a fully equipped, fully rebuilt engine ( Austria) ready to race....if you are interested, please PM me.
Going 450, are we?
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Old 04-14-2013, 01:33 PM   #27
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I did the Tuareg Rally this year with a 640 Adventure. The bike was good, but much to heavy for the dunes for me. Maybe for an advanced rider it's ok this weight, but I was beginner in the sand, and when you have to pick it up 10-20 times ... it makes a big different to have 30 kg less.

I saw a lot of ktm 690. Some of my teammates, well all except one had this bike. all of them will come back with a 450 next year. Too heavy.

I saw a few DRZ 400 as well, I think it's a good option as well.

And there was qui a lot of Husaberg 570 and 450, the 70 engine. all were happy with it. One guy even didn't have additional tank on his.

If I had the money would buy a Husaberg 570, but the fuel tanks are so expensive.. So I think I will look for a KTM 450-520-530....

And there were a few Husqvarna and Beta 450 as well. All finished without troubles.
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Old 04-14-2013, 10:46 PM   #28
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If you are just starting out in Rallies, go with the lighter bike. Preferably even an older carb model KTM 450/530

And yes, I am known to be a bit of a luddite
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Old 04-14-2013, 11:43 PM   #29
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Is really dependent on which rally. I really liked my 690 on the Tuareg rally in Marocco, those long pistes and big dunes. Tunesia has small dunes which are a lot thougher on a bigger bike.
Also Albania was great on the 690 and Hellas we will see next week .


Never had the need for a kick-starter, this bike (and and many FI ones) has a huge battery compared to non FI bikes.
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Old 04-15-2013, 01:08 AM   #30
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Indeed its personal what bike you like, but in general; a 450 suits all rallies. It also depends on your riding skills... when you're a beginner; start as light as possible. When a rally gets technical: get as light as possible. If a rally has long pistes and no (or little) really technical sections you can consider a 690 in my opinion.

And another tip; I see a lot of riders here with full rally fairings... this isn't necessary at all. Bigger tank, roadbook, ICO, GPS and you're done.
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