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Old 02-15-2014, 07:35 AM   #706
Mr Dual Sport
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallowa View Post
Don't wish to be a wet blanket for this thread...but please if you ski backcountry consider the rescuers that will have to come and bail you out or bring out your bodies...Tuesday two lost their lives and two more were seriously injured near the SW side of Cornucopia Peak in Southern Wallowa Mountains....yes it is all fun and games until the tragedy happens then tough, dedicated people have to put their lives on the line to hopefully save your butts or return your bodies to loved ones...everyone in the backcountry is responsible for their own safety and decisions.

Consider it...it is not about posting photos or bragging rights...it is about enjoying the backcountry and coming home safely.

Currently our mountains out here are very dangerous...beware.

http://www.lagrandeobserver.com/News/Local-News/Avalanche-victim-credits-guide-for-her-survival?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+LaGrandeObserver+%28La+Grande +Observer%29&utm_content=FeedBurner

http://www.lagrandeobserver.com/News/Local-News/Officials-Safety-was-critical?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+LaGrandeObserver+%28La+Grande +Observer%29&utm_content=FeedBurner

Although it is on the side of being dramatic, everything in your post made sense. Except what's in the yellow and the OP's pics. Do you personally know him and consider him reckless?

A warning about the current danger levels was prudent.
I didn't see the need to harass the OP about his images.
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Mr Dual Sport screwed with this post 02-15-2014 at 09:03 AM
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Old 02-15-2014, 08:16 AM   #707
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Um, wow. I've been avoiding this thread because I have not gone skiing this year (I'm an Alpine wous and too lazy for CC), and I knew it would bug me to see pics of Wachs, etc having fun......

Have some of you forgotten that we also ride motorcycles, and take similar risks in the warmer months, too?

I appreciate the reminder to think about the safety of potential rescue folk,....but there was nothing out of line in those pics.

Safety Third?
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Old 02-15-2014, 08:47 AM   #708
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On a MUCH lighter note....

Mt Hood Meadows has a President's day deal for night skiing this coming Monday Night 3-9pm. Forecast suggest TONS of big snow!

$15 for online pass, $20 on the hill.
I can afford that

Squishy and I are IN!!
.....I get to go skiing, I get to go skiing....

Roads will be a bit nasty to ride Punkin up, I fear
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Old 02-15-2014, 08:49 AM   #709
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Originally Posted by Apple Jam View Post
On a MUCH lighter note....

Mt Hood Meadows has a President's day deal for night skiing this coming Monday Night 3-9pm. Forecast suggest TONS of big snow!

$15 for online pass, $20 on the hill.
I can afford that

Squishy and I are IN!!
.....I get to go skiing, I get to go skiing....

Roads will be a bit nasty to ride Punkin up, I fear
Posum and I will meet you two up there! I'll PM you my phone#

Mt Bachelor exceeded a 100" base!
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Old 02-15-2014, 08:58 AM   #710
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Loup Loup is opening today! Ski fast, take chances! Lol.
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Old 02-15-2014, 10:08 AM   #711
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Is there any other way to do downhill?
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"got no problem with keeping truly roadless areas as wild....
On the other hand, if it has been logged or mined and roads already exist,,
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Old 02-15-2014, 11:06 AM   #712
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OK...My Error....Wrong Presentation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Dual Sport View Post
Although it is on the side of being dramatic, everything in your post made sense. Except what's in the yellow and the OP's pics. Do you personally know him and consider him reckless?

A warning about the current danger levels was prudent.
I didn't see the need to harass the OP about his images.

Michael sent me a very nice PM and I appreciated what he said. My post was not aimed at him or anyone else. I truly believe in assumption of risk and do not decry those that live life on the edge. Dramatic? Yes DS it was dramatic as is the scenario we played out this last week during the rescue and yet to come body recoveries. Unfortunately it is a scene that I have seen again and again. I have participated in too many rescues and recoveries.

So if I missed the mark that is my error; emphasis on the consequences of risk taking that gets overlooked was my intent. So many go into harm's way and never recognize it. Again, I am not referring to Michael or any one else. But all this could have been and probably was best left unsaid. Hey, "silence is golden".

Oh, I also enjoyed the photos Michael posted, they were great.
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Wallowa screwed with this post 02-15-2014 at 11:27 AM
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Old 02-15-2014, 12:00 PM   #713
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I spent a lot of years rescuing people and recovering the bodies of those that didn't make it. I'm no stranger to Back Country Hazards. I have been trapped in one Avalanche and hope to never experience that again. I was setting up an Avalanche Search and Rescue training day and while hiding training dummies I prematurely triggered the slide. It rolled me down slope violently and deposited me upright buried from the waist down. I was a bit beat up but nothing was broken. I was stuck and unable to free myself. It was like being in concrete. The others with me dug me out and the we continued much more cautiously.

I feel for those involved in the tragedy at Cornucopia. The thing that bugs me is that this as I understand it was a guided hut to hut ski. All experienced back country travelers should have the ability to read the snowpack and determine the danger level. This especially applies if you are going to call yourself a guide.
How did they get themselves into that situation? With the bit of snow we got early and the warmer temps up high that iced up the top of it. Add a nice fresh dump on top of that and you have a perfect recipe for it to slab off.
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Old 02-15-2014, 07:08 PM   #714
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmonkeybut View Post
I spent a lot of years rescuing people and recovering the bodies of those that didn't make it. I'm no stranger to Back Country Hazards. I have been trapped in one Avalanche and hope to never experience that again. I was setting up an Avalanche Search and Rescue training day and while hiding training dummies I prematurely triggered the slide. It rolled me down slope violently and deposited me upright buried from the waist down. I was a bit beat up but nothing was broken. I was stuck and unable to free myself. It was like being in concrete. The others with me dug me out and the we continued much more cautiously.

I feel for those involved in the tragedy at Cornucopia. The thing that bugs me is that this as I understand it was a guided hut to hut ski. All experienced back country travelers should have the ability to read the snowpack and determine the danger level. This especially applies if you are going to call yourself a guide.


How did they get themselves into that situation? With the bit of snow we got early and the warmer temps up high that iced up the top of it. Add a nice fresh dump on top of that and you have a perfect recipe for it to slab off.
So what are you saying, if you call your self a guide you should know better?
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Old 02-15-2014, 09:15 PM   #715
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Talking Hope This Does Not Stir The Hive

Quote:
Originally Posted by dirtbagrider View Post
So what are you saying, if you call your self a guide you should know better?
Actually anyone in a group or anyone solo should "know better" when red flags are discovered or there is uncertainty about your safety....tough, tough thing to do but when one in the group says "No" then everyone should support that decision and live to ski another day...too many defer without question to a guide for decisions that involve their personal safety; likewise I have seen many who do not want to be seen as 'weak' in a group even when they have reservations and go along with a group decision that is dangerous.

We need to wait for a complete report and after incident evaluation to assess the tragedy in the Wallowa Mts . Never jump to conclusions. But always learn from mistakes if they were made and "go to school" on what went wrong in hopes of preventing future mishaps.

It has been my experience that most incidents that persons call "accidents" are not accidental.

Hey as always, I could be wrong!
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Old 02-15-2014, 09:38 PM   #716
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So, what y'all'r trying to say is....
"Ride your own ride, you signed the legal waiver"

Do we really need to find out who's to blame and call a lawyer?
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Old 02-15-2014, 09:40 PM   #717
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallowa View Post

We need to wait for a complete report and after incident evaluation...
Hopefully there will be a report. Too many times guides services do not file reports on incidents. Bad publicity. Too bad is what I say! Incident reporting for guides services should be mandatory. Should be mandatory for all back country users. Mandatory might be too strong a word here, especially from someone so against regulation. Friends of NWAC is the place for these reports too be filed for all to peruse and learn from.
Remember The Snowy Torrents?
I've never had to recover bodies... attending two of three memorials in Leavenworth in Feb '10 was bad enough. My friends messed up. Tough lessons.
Skied low land (valley floor) today. Not even the heli flew today. I could hear some snowmobilers/ snowmobile skiers coming back from the pass today. Bigger balls than me. Low land skiing was off the hook! And it's snowing inch an hour here right now...
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Old 02-15-2014, 10:32 PM   #718
Wallowa
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Cool2 AJ, Not About Lawyers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple Jam View Post
So, what y'all'r trying to say is....
"Ride your own ride, you signed the legal waiver"

Do we really need to find out who's to blame and call a lawyer?
Yes we really need to find out the causes and contributing elements but nobody is talking about calling a lawyer or "assigning blame"... determining responsibility and accountability can prevent future incidents and save lives. If you don't critique such an incident any mistakes that were made will be repeated and others will suffer...I know you are not espousing it but not evaluating who did what when and what were the cause and effect events leading up an incident invites another tragedy. Old cliché: Learn from the mistakes, or repeat them.

The WAC crew did a complete protocol investigation of the avalanche event and that will be published; but the human factors are the critical ones that should be assessed. Likewise the FAA published crash reports are very objective and detailed; good examples of preventative evaluations.


Anyway, just my two cents and I could be wrong...
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Old 02-16-2014, 05:15 PM   #719
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Yet Another

This sounds all too familiar...

http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/16/us/colorado-avalance-missing-skiers/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
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Old 02-16-2014, 05:24 PM   #720
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Shit happens. Wrong place wrong time. Time to go. Ect.
Make educated choices through life and enjoy it to its fullest.
I'd rather go doing what I love then to be scared of dying everyday.
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