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Old 12-12-2010, 03:09 AM   #1
wiggywildwildwest OP
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2 stroke adv bikes ?

g'day guys. i've been thinking lately about the simple wonder of 2 stroke engines. light, powerful, compact and unfortunately relatively thirsty.

i reckon if the thirst bit could be fixed, a 2 stroke adv bike would be the duck's nuts. i've been looking on epay and the interboobs in general. the bits to fuel inject a single cyl. 2 smoker wouldn't be over hard or dear to come by.

also, the direct injection stuff looks like the go, but seems too complex and a bit too hard atm. maybe when there's a bit more info about.

has anyone here had experience with efi 2 strokes ? outboards most likely ? are they significantly cleaner running and more economical ?
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Old 12-12-2010, 03:53 AM   #2
troy safari carpente
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Wiggy... keep your eyes peeled in the next twelve to eighteen months towards the european end of the marketplace... There's some interesting stuff happening with direct injection/Fuel injection/2 stroke engines going on behind the scenes in some back sheds about the place...

As you say; the technology has existed in outboard motors and snowmobile engines for a while now... light, economical (edit: maybe "efficient" is a better word), ie: good performance to weight ratio...

A light 250 - 300 cc Fi enduro 2 stroke... or how about something like a 450 - 600cc 2 cylinder direct injected 2 stroke to power that "Adventure bike" format you're pondering...?
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Old 12-12-2010, 04:04 AM   #3
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one of those 600 arctic cat donks looks like the go. what sort of trans does a snowmobile have ? i was looking at 360-380 ish euro 2 smokers. it's interesting to look at the success with the aprillia scooters. maybe they are using them as a test bed ?
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Old 12-12-2010, 04:53 AM   #4
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DRJoe to the white coutesy phone. This guy could tell you what could be hooked up. Surprised if he hasnt tried it already.
Been thinking 2 stroke myself lately. However thinking DT175. Im a sadist. I know.
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Old 12-12-2010, 04:57 AM   #5
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Most modern snowmobiles/ATV's use various forms of CVT transmissions... well suited to the snowmobile application... but the wieght of these auto transmissions are a bit hefty for a motorcycle application... and while they work well in the cooler conditions... don't tend to like the heat (ie: desert apploications). So for an adventure bike, coupling one of these type powerplants to a conventional cassette style 6 speed gearbox would be pretty good I reckon.

Artic Cat (as you mentioned them) currently have a 800cc FI 2 stroke (paralell twin) that reputedly puts out 160 hp! (I'm guessing thats at the output shaft... ie; BEFORE the transmission?). But given those figures, imagine scaling the the thing back down to a 600cc twin and you could (conservatively) have 80 - 90 hp in a lightweight/performance two stroke package... slip that into something like a 690 R chassis for me please!

Way back in the 90's, I often wondered about the potential of Yamaha's 350cc (parallel twin 2 stroke) Banshee (Quad) motor... those things were light, responsive and heaps of sting. Look at the performance of the various Kawasaki parallel twin 2 stroke Jetski donks also (550cc and 650cc). The horses they get out of those things really rip.

As far as 300cc 2 strokes go... I wouldn't be surprised to see any of the current 2 stroke enduro manufacturers (like Husqvarna, Husaberg or GasGas) come out with a FI 300 cc 2 stroke for 2012...
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Old 12-12-2010, 06:03 AM   #6
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With the 2 stroke outboards they have direct injection etc.
Economical but the problem is the exhaust exits the burnt 2 stroke oil.
Oil does not burn that well so oil goes into the water.
Put your hand behind a 2 stroke engine exhaust while it is running and you will get a film of oil on your hand.
So there going 4 stroke out boards.

I know the latest 2 stroke direct injected outboards were more economical than the old non direct injected by a long way.
If the were more economical than the latest 4 stroke outboards.
I could not tell the answer to that.
My guess would be yes.

I am not sure if this is right but i heard that lawn mowers in the USA have to be 4 stroke because of EPA.
Correct me if i am wrong.

Apparently companies like Honda who sell more bikes and the like of KTM,
tougher enviromental restrictions are on them.

Honda did try a 500cc 2 stroke as a test bed to see how it would go in Dakar.
But 4 stroke became the choice again.

I think the 2 stroke would be cool as a ADV bike,
light and go like stink,
would it ever become into production i very much doubt it.
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Old 12-12-2010, 06:24 AM   #7
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I think with the exception of Califorina two stroke engines are still legal. I think a old air cooled Yamaha single in a newer frame/suspension would rock. I love the sounds and smell of two strokes, I'll have to fire up my smoker Toro snow blower today if the weather lady has her prediction right.
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Old 12-12-2010, 06:32 AM   #8
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Hmmm, I wonder if they make WR transmissions for the CR500...
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Old 12-12-2010, 07:20 AM   #9
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Snow mobiles have a belt drive primary (from clutch) to final drive, actuated centrifugally by springs. Think Vespa scooter rideability. But 800cc...

Fuel consumption is still high, but they are still very light. I did a bit of reading on using one of these motors.

http://thekneeslider.com/archives/20...-stroke-racer/

http://www.motorbyte.com/norton/Tularis.htm





http://thekneeslider.com/archives/20...e-twin-update/


Anyways, why not try these mad fuckers in Cairns?

http://www.twostrokeshop.com/index.htm
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Old 12-12-2010, 08:05 AM   #10
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Interesting how technology can advance - The much prematurely lauded Vdue from Bimota kinda had a fair hand in sending them broke.
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Old 12-12-2010, 10:05 AM   #11
troy safari carpente
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Mini adventure 2 stroke

Cagiva offered this 125 two stroke version of their "Lucky explorer" Elefant back in the early 90's...



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Old 12-12-2010, 11:22 AM   #12
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I am building a ADV bike out off a DT400.14 years ago {before kids}i had a 76 rd400 as my only transport.It was heaps of fun on dirt roads.I have a Varadero and a KLR650 now but i cant wait to get back on a 2 stroke.
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Old 12-12-2010, 11:31 AM   #13
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I am building a ADV bike out off a DT400
That actually sounds pretty cool. Fresh engine rebuild, forged piston so you get better reliability, port and polish for a little more power, beefed up frame, front suspension swap along with a modern disc brake (off a YZ250?), maybe slightly redone rear suspension...

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Old 12-12-2010, 12:38 PM   #14
wiggywildwildwest OP
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i reckon a DT400 motor in a newer frame might be the go. i don't know how you'd register it though. the bit of reading i did suggests the 4 stroke outboards were not overly well received due to weight, complexity and cost.

i was also led to believe the di stuff uses an oil pump to pump minute amounts of oil under the piston to keep things alive.
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Old 12-12-2010, 12:49 PM   #15
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Thumb yes please !!!!

[QUOTE=troy safari carpente;14682909]

Artic Cat (as you mentioned them) currently have a 800cc FI 2 stroke (paralell twin) that reputedly puts out 160 hp! (I'm guessing thats at the output shaft... ie; BEFORE the transmission?). But given those figures, imagine scaling the the thing back down to a 600cc twin and you could (conservatively) have 80 - 90 hp in a lightweight/performance two stroke package... slip that into something like a 690 R chassis for me please! [ /QUOTE]
I'll put my order in now for one of these thanx troy..
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