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Old 12-13-2010, 02:52 PM   #16
Warney
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Old 12-13-2010, 04:08 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by techguy View Post
I went to the website for the OP's question and they advertise these are benefits for using them...

FREE Freight Protection Insurance ($49 Value) -- A real value.
FREE 24 Hours Delivery Notice ($15 Value)-- The trucker calls you to arrange delivery is a $15 value?
FREE Residential Delivery ($45 Value)-- The trucker delivers to where you ordered it? big surprise.
FREE Lift Gate Service ($45 Value) -- The truck uses a lift gate? like every other lift gate truck for non-freight dock delivery?
FREE Owner's Manual and Tool Kit ($29 Value) You mean the book that comes with every thing you buy...is free? Every scooter comes with tools.
FREE MSO/MCO and Bill of Sale Paper Work ($35 Value) The legally required paperwork?
FREE One Year Engine and Frame Warranty ($99 Value) OK... a legitimate value
FREE Lifetime Technical Support Will they be there to answer the phone. What will they do for you when they answer the phone? Will it solve YOUR problem? What will they do you if talking on the phone is not going to solve you problem? You need apart or it is beyond talking... fried wires.. defective battery ... poor quality part?

This is a very good post. They just do that to make it look all cheap, while some of it are oblivious and unlegitimate, and the others should be expected.


Now I am not going to bash all chinese scoots, I know that there are some real good chinese companies out there such as Lifan and CF Moto, but I am speaking of the crappy little no names.

First of all, you can say you need no brakes, but when you are approaching an intersection at 50 MPH or more and a car makes a right turn on read without stopping and looking right in front of you and there is a car right next to you, the car in front of you suddenly slams on it's brakes, something happens, you WILL NEED brakes! I know this for a fact.

Yes, there are actually many situations where looking for a way out is way safer, or dodging is safer, but I will tell you you really need strong brakes! If you use them or not, you should without a doubt have them there for your own safety, especially on a CVT bike where you can't even down shift and pop the clutch out! I will tell you, my brakes being well taken care of and serviced have saved my life or saved me from getting in a serious accident many times! I think that these brakes are really stupid, I can not believe that they would cut this big of a corner. They should be sued when someone dies because of this!

And as for the BMW brake thing, I don't have any BMW bikes, but I do know how well designed they are. Sometimes there are problems like this, and I am sure When BMW finds out about this they will fix it and probably offer a free replacement, or do something like that. I actually personally don't really like having ABS on my bikes. It does have many benefits, but sometimes its better to have a little more power and slide! But thats just my opinion.

But overall, most of these cheap no names are horrible overall bikes! I have only have one chinese 50 cc scooter. It sucked big time! It would do like 28 MPH, and it only lasted 300 miles before it randomly seized up! The cylinder was made of crap material. It had horrible cooling. It had no oil injection, and I had the exact right mix of oil, actually a tiny bit more oil because I new these china 2 strokes had the potential to seize! It was good high quality oil too! Everything went wrong with it. The carb was never right from day 1, the electrical system couldn't have been worse, and the frame gave out one day! It sucked. I also had a 2 stroke chinese $60 weed trimmer that seized after like 2 weeks.


My friends also have had some real bad experiences with chinese bikes and scoots. I have seen some really good Honda quality chinese bikes, but I am speaking of crappy bikes.

But personally, I have bad experiences with low quality products. Some guys just get some luck and their bikes just work, but not me! If the bike is crap, it is going to be crap for me!

But you know what the chances are. Like. techguy's first post said. It may last a week, maybe two, but eventually you will end up with something sitting in your garage. You'll say its just a little thing, I can fix it! It will probably be a money pit!

Just go for a good known chinese company, or a Kymco or SYM.

BTW, anyone who has a chinese scoot that is still going great, or has had very little trouble with, good for you! Just ignore my little rant, this is just my opinion and experience, your may be different, and if it's good, good for you! I wish I could have one run good!
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Old 12-13-2010, 04:16 PM   #18
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Sounds to me like you didn't know the limitations of your machines and expected them to operate them beyond their limits.
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Old 12-13-2010, 04:55 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Cat0020 View Post
Sounds to me like you didn't know the limitations of your machines and expected them to operate them beyond their limits.
+1 on that.

I'm not one to say the Chinese stuff is better than anyone elses, but for the price, you get what you pay for.

After rebuilding my latest scooter, I've seen the shortcuts, and don't think that an extra $1500-$2500 is going to make those shortcuts disappear. I was looking at a 2010 Honda Metropolitan just uncrated on the sales floor. The salesman said it needed work. Huh? 0 Miles and needed work? Then I looked underneath, the factory missed a weld on the frame and it still went. This was a Honda, not a chinese knock off. Reminds me of the day I saw a Caddliac being built during a tour of the local GM plant. Looked good, engine valve covers said Caddilac on one side, and Chevrolet on the other side. Even better was the two tone doors, white car, burgundy door.

Can happen anywhere, depends on if the QC guy actually gives a ----.
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Old 12-13-2010, 05:55 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat0020 View Post
Sounds to me like you didn't know the limitations of your machines and expected them to operate them beyond their limits.

I know the limitations on my machines. I rode it easy, usually 1/4- 1/3 throttle to get going in general, and 1/2-3/4 throttle at cruise speed. This was kind of a fun camp ground throw in the back of the truck kind of scoot for me. I rarely even rode it. And I know how when 2 stroke gas+oil mix sit for a long time the oil sinks to the bottom. I always took that into account, and never kept a tank of fuel in it when I was going to let it sit. I drained the tank and used the old stuff in my weed eater every week and mixed fresh gas and oil in a small can when I was going to ride it.

I took good care of it. I only rode it maybe once a month or so. But the cooling system wasn't real great, and it was a very poor quality engine. Then I was just riding around one day and the engine just hard seized. After already putting more money into the scoot than I had payed for it, I gave up. I had already finished re welding the frame after it cracked when I when over a bump. It looked like there were a couple of crappy welds, I re-welded all of them while I was at it.

I don't expect anything but reliable transportation from my bikes, or at least reliable screwing around in the back yard and camp ground from this scoot!

Now I am not saying all china scoots suck. But I am saying many of the cheapo brands do! In fact, that scoot I had was a complete no-name! I don't even remember the name of the company that sold it! It was some scooter warehouse and it was titled just "49 cc scooter".

So maybe some are good, and some aren't. I think that there are some wonderful scoots coming out of china, don't get me wrong, but my point is you get what you pay for, if you buy a cheap cheap chinese scoot, then you will get cheap quality. If you get a brand name middle priced chinese scooter, you will get a nice scoot that will serve as reliable transportation. I mean just because it is made in china really means nothing to me. It is WHO makes it in china. Honda, Kymco, and many other companies are building their bikes in china. They are just as good as always. But they have much better quality control than some cheap scooter warehouse.


Oh, and Sportsman Matt, I am not saying Honda never screws up. Sometimes they just let something go without looking at it closely or just mess something up. It happens. Just very rarely. And if someone had bought that without the dealer knowing, they could reliably take it back and exchange it for another one. If you buy from a good dealer, you can do the same with the chinese bikes.

btcn screwed with this post 12-13-2010 at 06:00 PM
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Old 12-13-2010, 06:14 PM   #21
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As a courtesy, we have accepted a few Chinese scooters on trade when their owners get fed up.

I've yet to be impressed. They shake like a dog with fleas, fitment is poor, the lights actually dim at idle and get bright when you hit the throttle...

Folks, life is short. Get something of quality. Buy a tight, used Helix, Reflex, Majesty, or even a Riva.

If a $2 steak isn't beef, the only person who should be surprised is no one.
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Old 12-13-2010, 07:08 PM   #22
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FWIW, my dad bought a chinese scooter because it was so cheap and regretted it. POS.
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Old 12-13-2010, 08:13 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btcn View Post

I don't expect anything but reliable transportation from my bikes, or at least reliable screwing around in the back yard and camp ground from this scoot!

Now I am not saying all china scoots suck. But I am saying many of the cheapo brands do! In fact, that scoot I had was a complete no-name! I don't even remember the name of the company that sold it! It was some scooter warehouse and it was titled just "49 cc scooter".

So maybe some are good, and some aren't. I think that there are some wonderful scoots coming out of china, don't get me wrong, but my point is you get what you pay for, if you buy a cheap cheap chinese scoot, then you will get cheap quality. If you get a brand name middle priced chinese scooter, you will get a nice scoot that will serve as reliable transportation. I mean just because it is made in china really means nothing to me. It is WHO makes it in china. Honda, Kymco, and many other companies are building their bikes in china. They are just as good as always. But they have much better quality control than some cheap scooter warehouse.
i agree about the "reliable" part. if i buy a "new" scooter, thats what i expect. i am not much of a "wrencher" and don't want to be. i don't want a mechanical project, i just want to ride my scooter

dealer service and support. a good warranty. these are things i need. i am a full time rider now, and can't afford to go hunting for parts or waiting 3 weeks for them to come in. if my scooter breaks i have a dealer i can take it to who will fix it for free. if its tied up for more then a few days and i request one, my dealer will give me a "loaner" scoot from his rental fleet to use for a few days. may not seem like a lot, but when you need a ride it helps a lot

i cannot badmouth all china scooters, and i am not a "scooter snob." i think that is silly. BUT i will tell a person of they can afford it to get something else, or get something used. heck, Genuine gives roadside service.

fact of the matter is chinese scooters take more maintenance and repair. and sometimes things that break when fixed, break again. my dealer used to sell TNG but no longer, as somewhere in the middle of the decade quality took a dive. when a dealer who sells Taiwan bikes and used Vespa, Honda, Yamaha, etc....takes on a more trouble prone chinese make, it can mean bad business for the dealer, because word of mouth spreads about them selling crappy scooters. i am sure my dealer wouldn't mind working on chinese scooters and making some money, but he doesn't because many keep breaking. its a "one thing after another" scenario. essentially he doesn't want to take peoples money for something that, in his words, "won't stay fixed"

i suppose the quality of the bike does depend on who made it in china. a few factories have better reputations of others. the worst are the ones making a "clone of a clone of a clone." Znen is most likely the largest and most successful maker in china, and they are average at best

but those "no name, no brand" ones you mention? i wouldn't wish them on anyone. a QUALITY 150cc scooter, shipped all the way from china and to your door for $650? i am not biting

the valves don't need constant adjustment on my scooter, the belt won't break at 4,000m, the bulbs all work, the battery will last, the fuse is good, the hoses and rubber and trim pieces are good quality, it doesn't shake, squeak, rattle or roll. if it breaks it will get fixed and stay fixed, and its going to look good after thousands of miles and a couple of years of riding. it has a two year warranty, parts and labor, and the best independent dealer in Los Angeles standing behind it. thats what i needed and thats what i paid my $1600 for

all that said, i do want a 250 and may go china scoot for it. since i already have a scooter, and it won't be my only ride. however i kind of want a CFMoto V5 "scootercycle." but that is $3000, not $1800. so, back in the same boat with price. i could get an Aprillia 200 Scarabeo for around that much a little used, or a Kymco S250 used for less. which i love

if i ever got an $1800 250cc china scoot it would be an experiment of sorts. but knowing i could get a low mileage SYM HD200 for maybe $500 more would most likely sway me that way
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Old 12-13-2010, 09:08 PM   #24
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I completely agree with you. Yea, kymco scooters are so well priced that it almost makes no sense to go otherwise, and the Sym scooters are well priced and are very good machines.
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Old 12-13-2010, 10:35 PM   #25
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You guys are right!

Wo, those things really sound like more trouble than they are worth to me. I am so glad I posted this, fake frekin ABS? Who the hell are the idiots behind that? That could seriously kill someone! That is so dangerous to have shitty brakes. Think about that, what is more important. Saving $1,000 or saving your own life? Your choice.

I think that some of the higher end chinese companies make great scoots, but the prices on those are up with the other known brands. I think that he'll go with a Kymco or a SYM scooter based on the reviews that we have been reading in the past 2 days or so.

As an auto mechanic, I will tell you that ABS is usually a very good, reliable braking system. It does take away a tiny little bit of your braking power, but it works very well. Some cars also only have it in the rear or front, while many have both. They all work well. Good Brakes are a must. I have been hearing that even upon eliminating the dangerous fake ABS, many guys have said the brakes are shitty and the brake pads wear out quick. But jeez, taking half the Hydraulic disk brake fluid and squirting it in a bottle and some into the brake, how much more retarded can you get?

Overall, sure some of these scoots will serve you guys fine, but he doesn't want to take any chances.
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Old 12-13-2010, 10:38 PM   #26
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<>

You can buy a brand new 2008 SYM HD200 with full two year warranty for about $2300-$2400.2009s out the door for $2600.And I just bought a new leftover 2009 Kymco People 150 for $2390.We love our HD200.

Jon
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Old 12-13-2010, 10:51 PM   #27
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Yep, thats what I think he is planning on doing. He is actually interested in the SYM RV 250, as it is small enough for around town, but is supposed to be able to do 91 MPH, perfect for the commute! Currently I only have one scoot, a 2007 Reflex 250. But I am looking for another scoot, maybe a little Agility 125 for zipping around on!
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Old 12-14-2010, 12:28 AM   #28
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To answer the OP question. I have owned both, a Chinese Reflex clone (MC-54-250B) and currently own a '08 and '09 SYM RV250. The clone was purchased in the summer '08 at the height of the scooter craze. Paid $2600 including tax and registration fee's, lasted less than 1 year /5500 miles before the engine just fell apart. 4 months after I bought it I realized I needed something more reliable and trust worthy for longer rides. Once you get the cover panels off it really shows it's true colors. It screams cheap and low budget, had to replace the vacume and fuel lines, along with the valve stems just for piece of mind. Was fun for awhile but the constant tinkering and fixing minor issues, was not something I wanted to do.The SYM's on the other hand cost $5000 out the door each, my '08 has over 26K miles and the '09 has over 10. Was rode to Las Vegas 3000 miles and this year did a 2700 mile vacation on it with my wife. She rides the '09. Not one mechanical issue other than replacing headlight bulb. You generally get what you pay for. If you like to tinker it can be for you, but I prefer to ride over wrenching.
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Old 12-14-2010, 01:26 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Birdmove View Post
<>

You can buy a brand new 2008 SYM HD200 with full two year warranty for about $2300-$2400.2009s out the door for $2600.And I just bought a new leftover 2009 Kymco People 150 for $2390.We love our HD200.

Jon
yeah, i feel bad about this, but its good for the buyer. however i feel bad because it shows scooter sales are in the dumps, and many a good dealer have seen their doors close recently

that said, its created a helluva buyers market out there. especially with the leftover 2009's and 2008's and soon to be 2010's. but if you were in the market like i was for a scooter this past year you saw fewer and further between 2010's and more and more leftover 2009's. really shouldn't matter to the buyer as they get a good deal on a new scoot and the only difference is the model year. but the dealers have hurt like crazy

i also heard it through the grapevine that manufacturers have a BUNCH of 2009 stock just sitting in crates on cargo docks that never got shipped to dealers. apparently those scoots can still be ordered by dealers, but most likely they will be sold at auctions and in other markets around the world at fire sale prices just to recoup some cost. i don't know much about the business, but i know its been bad. my dealer has two SYM City Com's that have been on his showroom floor since 2008. freakin' 2008! he also has a 2008 Kymco People S200 (163cc) he has priced at $900 off. its a weird color (sky blue) but he hasn't even gotten any offers for it. not even a low one by someone looking for a super bargain. i am pretty sure he would move it at $2500 OTD, or even less to a serious buyer with cash in hand. but not even ONE offer in the five months or so he's had it listed at discount. that is pretty sad in a city like Los Angeles where the weather is fine for scooting all year round

he unloaded a couple of 2008 SYM RV250's for $3250 a couple months ago. two people somewhere got a great bargain on great scoots. i don't know the final price paid, but $3250 was a great price in and of itself. all these scoots carry 2 year, unlimited mile parts and labor warranties!

the $1600 i paid for my 2009 Kymco Agility 125 is an OTD price, btw. the closest "quality" chinese scooter from a local dealer was a 150cc BMS Heritage priced at $1450 OTD. the choice, as they say, was obvious

its a buyers market. you just gotta do a little leg work for the best deals out there





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Old 12-14-2010, 03:53 PM   #30
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Honda, Kymco, and many other companies are building their bikes in china.
Taiwan is not China...


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