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Old 12-17-2010, 10:35 AM   #61
Cat0020
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Polls seems somewhat biased to me. It would be interesting to know how many Kymco scooters have been sold vs similar Chinese scoot. If 10 times as many Chinese scoots have been sold over Kymco, it is likely that there is more issues.
Where does that pol take place? only in the US or worldwide?
I'd think many more scooters are sold wordlwide than within the US.
Not many places in the world that scooters can or have the need to travels at 60 mph.
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Old 12-17-2010, 11:14 AM   #62
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Chinese motorcycle and scooter production figures for 2010 are estimated at 11,954,400 with just over 3,000,000 exported. That is far more than any other country. Japanese motorcycle production for the same period is estimated at just under 500,000. So, there are a LOT of Chinese motorcycles out there. China's top motorcycle exporters are Loncin, Xiang, Lifan, Guangzhou Hao Jin, Zongshen, Jincheng.
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Old 12-17-2010, 12:54 PM   #63
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True, but we can't forget that they are interested in the smaller motorcycle market far more than the Japanese. Honda doesn't really care for this, they care for selling big street bikes now, and now they are doing some weird stuff like producing the Fury.

I bet if Honda really wanted to sell a lot of bikes, they would bring back the Cub, but modernized, roadworthy and with a 50 cc-150 cc version, and sell it for a good affordable price like they used to . But retain the old Horizontal "50" type engine that they sold more than anything.

If you ask me, all the chinese companies are just FAR better marketers. They know what we want! And they know that we don't want to pay big for this. For example, THEY know how bad we want a cub, so heres what they do:

http://gokartsusa.com/honda50.aspx


It's a Lifan! Only $978 is very affordable, and Lifans are trusty engines. It has that same old Honda "50" like engine, but with modern CDI ignition and it's a good Lifan with 4 gears. When people see that same old Honda 50 like engine, they will remember their first Honda Trail or Mini trail when they were 12! But if the engine was really Honda, people would buy it so fast! Even though the Lifan is of comparable quality. I have a Honda CRF 50, and I can tell you that it has been more reliable than any of my other bikes! It sat for 2 years one time, and started on the very first kick, and ran great! It truly does start on the first kick every time!


So my point is, the chinese are outselling Honda not because they are better, but they know what we want and what prices are appropriate! Honda thinks that they can just bring some scooter thats popular in some other country here, jack the price up X2 or X3, and sell a million of them as they did with the SH. Wrong! This just shows that Honda doesn't truly care for the North American market at this point. They give all those cool little bikes to many other countries, but not us!

On another note, what was said about most countries not needing to exceed 60 MPH is also something to think about. The SH might do real good over there and be worth the money because it would not even be a consideration to get anything bigger. Yes, here in America if your bike can't do 60 MPH, it is considered a toy on the road, while in other countries it would do great as someone's main transportation and for trips. But this is only true in certain particular areas of these countries.
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Old 12-17-2010, 01:48 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken11 View Post
I met a guy at a gas station with a big huge scooter, and I asked him about it. He said it was a 260 cc chinese scooter. I asked him about reliability and he said it had been pretty reliable with just some minor issues. He told me it would hit 80 MPH too! He said these were better than the Reflex knock offs.

So I am wandering if these would be any better? Maybe buy one, test it and if it sucks part it out or sell it, and get a brand name scooter.

Heres what it looks like:

http://www.hotrodpocketbikes.com/con...c_scooter.html

Heres a video doing 65 MPH. It looks like its holding up better than my Reflex at that speed! Just under 5,000 RPM!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eL8KIDD8mYM


I just wanted to see what you guys thought of this. Otherwise, He's going to be getting a SYM 250.
that model is what is known widely as the "VOG," which i believe is the first model name it was sold under. it's sort of based on the styling of the Suzuki Burgman

you can find many opinions and experiences in the "250cc and Up" forum at scootdawg

http://scootdawg.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=200cc

i actually think the 250cc+ chinese scoots are good vaules if they work out, and many people certainly get what they pay for and more out of them. looks like user Cat0020 is a member of that forum, too

that scooter is overpriced bought from that seller you linked, though. same scoot from superior powersports

http://www.superiorpowersports.com/2...rk250sc-62.htm

they have a whole host of low priced 250cc's

http://www.superiorpowersports.com/category_s/55.htm

and this one here is the "latest" 250 - 260cc generic china scoot. which explains the higher price

http://www.superiorpowersports.com/2...50sc-titan.htm

same bike from a better seller, for less money

http://www.scooterdynasty.com/250ccssrtitan.aspx

if your friend was gonna pay $2500, or is willing to, better to get something like the big scoots on this page imho

http://www.scootersus.com/aeolusscooters.html

and, feeling daring? look at these "refurbished" scoots

http://www.powersportsmax.com/produc...ducts_id/14830

http://www.powersportsmax.com/produc...ducts_id/14520


i would just call and tell them to deliver the scoots for that price, and its a sale
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Old 12-18-2010, 06:11 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btcn View Post
True, but we can't forget that they are interested in the smaller motorcycle market far more than the Japanese. Honda doesn't really care for this, they care for selling big street bikes now, and now they are doing some weird stuff like producing the Fury.

I bet if Honda really wanted to sell a lot of bikes, they would bring back the Cub, but modernized, roadworthy and with a 50 cc-150 cc version, and sell it for a good affordable price like they used to . But retain the old Horizontal "50" type engine that they sold more than anything.

If you ask me, all the chinese companies are just FAR better marketers. They know what we want! And they know that we don't want to pay big for this. For example, THEY know how bad we want a cub, so heres what they do:

http://gokartsusa.com/honda50.aspx


It's a Lifan! Only $978 is very affordable, and Lifans are trusty engines. It has that same old Honda "50" like engine, but with modern CDI ignition and it's a good Lifan with 4 gears. When people see that same old Honda 50 like engine, they will remember their first Honda Trail or Mini trail when they were 12! But if the engine was really Honda, people would buy it so fast! Even though the Lifan is of comparable quality. I have a Honda CRF 50, and I can tell you that it has been more reliable than any of my other bikes! It sat for 2 years one time, and started on the very first kick, and ran great! It truly does start on the first kick every time!


So my point is, the chinese are outselling Honda not because they are better, but they know what we want and what prices are appropriate! Honda thinks that they can just bring some scooter thats popular in some other country here, jack the price up X2 or X3, and sell a million of them as they did with the SH. Wrong! This just shows that Honda doesn't truly care for the North American market at this point. They give all those cool little bikes to many other countries, but not us!

On another note, what was said about most countries not needing to exceed 60 MPH is also something to think about. The SH might do real good over there and be worth the money because it would not even be a consideration to get anything bigger. Yes, here in America if your bike can't do 60 MPH, it is considered a toy on the road, while in other countries it would do great as someone's main transportation and for trips. But this is only true in certain particular areas of these countries.
When gas goes over $5/gallon, a 50cc scooter/moped that can hit 45 mph and gets over 100 mpg will sell like hotcakes. Here is the same Honda 50 clone for half price:

http://www.superiorpowersports.com/5...rk50sc-114.htm
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Old 12-18-2010, 06:27 AM   #66
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Max speed 21.7 mph? That would be a little too limiting for most people in the US.
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Old 12-18-2010, 07:22 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hugemoth View Post
Max speed 21.7 mph? That would be a little too limiting for most people in the US.
Didn't notice that - sounds wrong for a 4 speed 50. Definitely too slow for anywhere I ride!
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Old 12-18-2010, 08:28 AM   #68
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The other web site says max speed 45 which sounds more reasonable. If so that could be about the cheapest practical motorized transportation available.

I've noticed that web sites selling Chinese bikes are pretty accurate when they are copied from the original Chinese specs but often the retailers make up their own higher max speed specs. The factory spec top speed for my Lifan 200 is 65 mph which is accurate but some web sites say "75 mph with ease". Same with my Hensim 250 factory listing at 62 mph but some sites say 80 mph.

Quote:
Originally Posted by soboy View Post
Didn't notice that - sounds wrong for a 4 speed 50. Definitely too slow for anywhere I ride!
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Old 12-18-2010, 09:09 AM   #69
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Yep, a 4 speed 50 should top a minimum of 40 MPH. I am sure that they screwed up with that, 21 MPH is too slow for a 1 speed 50, even those should do 25 MPH.

Yes, those sites get pretty optimistic scometimes. For example, check out this piece of crap pocket bike for $179. They are 47 cc 1 speed and they claim 47 MPH. No way!

http://www.minipocketrockets.com/cag...pocket-rocket/

Look down at the specs and it says 47+ MPH!

More like 30 MPH! Thats what everyone who has one knows.


Oh and shit! I love that little bike, espically since it runs a Lifan engine I know it will be decent, and at that price I would love a 4 speed 50! Drop a 140 cc Lifan in there for $300 and you have a great roadworthy transportation!

But Damn! They say it is not CARB approved, so I can't get it out here in Cali.. But maybe the other site for more will send it, who knows? But at that price I can buy a used Trail and drop a Lifan 140 in!
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Old 12-18-2010, 02:40 PM   #70
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Quote:
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I bet if Honda really wanted to sell a lot of bikes, they would bring back the Cub, but modernized, roadworthy and with a 50 cc-150 cc version, and sell it for a good affordable price like they used toi
meh, SYM already did that with the Symba, taking a shot at a Honda Passport / Cub. they didn't sell crap. nice bike, too. but then again, SYM wouldn't know how to sell a fur coat in the Arctic, or water in Death Valley. SYM built most of the original Passport / Cub's, btw.

Flyscooters had their clone, too. gone now, of course. along with Flyscooters itself



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Old 12-18-2010, 02:49 PM   #71
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Btcn I saw that too. What's worse is try going to the MA DOT with a MCO/MSO that says compliant in 49 states. Automatic rejection for a title.

Seems the Massholes over in Boston decided when the EPA came through and got strict with Federal emmision standards, to adopt the law of

"California Emmisions or Federal Standards, whichever is stricter"

So if it doesn't comply with California, don't even bother with it in MA.

Funny part is the same scooter with the "California compliant" is $500 more than the ones that aren't.

Willing to guaranty from a couple of these online companies that if you paid for one of the California compliant models, you might still get a MCO/MSO that says "Complies with Emmision Standards in 49 States"
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Old 12-18-2010, 03:23 PM   #72
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most of you on here don't know what you are talking about and are basing your info on lack of info.

Simply put scooters coming out from China by chinese companies are crap, plain and simple. The only good ones coming out of china are made by Japanese and Taiwanese companies.

The good old saying you get what you pay for most certainly applies to scoots from china.

You might ask what the hell do I know? Well considering that I'm somewhat in the industry and not just the scooter industry but the chinese company made side of the industry I know a thing or two. Yes, I would be going against my best interest since I make money from China made scooters from chinese manufacturers. Knowing what I know I would not put a penny into one of these scoots. You wouldn't believe the things I've seen with chinese company made scoots!

Now on the other hand I have all the confidence in the world with bikes made in China being made by a Japanese or Taiwanese company. As a matter of fact I just recently bought a china made Honda Elite.
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Old 12-18-2010, 03:29 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by DudeClone View Post
meh, SYM already did that with the Symba, taking a shot at a Honda Passport / Cub. they didn't sell crap. nice bike, too. but then again, SYM wouldn't know how to sell a fur coat in the Arctic, or water in Death Valley. SYM built most of the original Passport / Cub's, btw.

Flyscooters had their clone, too. gone now, of course. along with Flyscooters itself




The Fly Scout has nothing on the SYM Symba. The Symba is better in every way. I know first had, search for my ride post on the symba to alaska. Having laid my hands on the Scout as well I wouldn't trust it to get me out of CA let alone go to AK and back.
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Old 12-18-2010, 03:59 PM   #74
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calm down, man. i didn't compare the Scout to the Symba quality wise. and regarding your last post, i don't know who the "most of you" are you've implied are praising chinese scoots. if anything most posts in this thread have reflected your sentiments, if not as rigidly

but if you want to think you know better then most of us for whatever reason, fine with me
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Old 12-18-2010, 04:02 PM   #75
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Wow! Finally a real expert on Chinese scooters. Please give us some background. Which brands have you actually tested and exactly what failed on them?


Quote:
Originally Posted by DaBinChe View Post
most of you on here don't know what you are talking about and are basing your info on lack of info.

Simply put scooters coming out from China by chinese companies are crap, plain and simple. The only good ones coming out of china are made by Japanese and Taiwanese companies.

The good old saying you get what you pay for most certainly applies to scoots from china.

You might ask what the hell do I know? Well considering that I'm somewhat in the industry and not just the scooter industry but the chinese company made side of the industry I know a thing or two. Yes, I would be going against my best interest since I make money from China made scooters from chinese manufacturers. Knowing what I know I would not put a penny into one of these scoots. You wouldn't believe the things I've seen with chinese company made scoots!

Now on the other hand I have all the confidence in the world with bikes made in China being made by a Japanese or Taiwanese company. As a matter of fact I just recently bought a china made Honda Elite.
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