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Old 12-20-2010, 11:36 AM   #91
hugemoth
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Harley has imported and sold bikes under the HD brand before, Aermacchi of Italy. I don't see why it would be a big deal for them to import smaller bikes from China and put their name on them to make a few extra bucks. There are some real nice Chinese V twin engines based on the Yamaha design built by Lifan in a 250cc and 400 cc size. Lifan already imports their V twin 250 motorcycle and has plans to import the 400.

http://www.americanlifan.com/lifan4/250-b.html
http://www.americanlifan.com/lifan4/400.html

BTW I always like the Aermacchi 250 with the horizontal engine. Kind of like a big Honda 90.
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Old 12-20-2010, 11:48 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hugemoth View Post
Harley has imported and sold bikes under the HD brand before, Aermacchi of Italy. I don't see why it would be a big deal for them to import smaller bikes from China and put their name on them to make a few extra bucks. There are some real nice Chinese V twin engines based on the Yamaha design built by Lifan in a 250cc and 400 cc size. Lifan already imports their V twin 250 motorcycle and has plans to import the 400.

http://www.americanlifan.com/lifan4/250-b.html
http://www.americanlifan.com/lifan4/400.html

BTW I always like the Aermacchi 250 with the horizontal engine. Kind of like a big Honda 90.

Wait, they are just planing on importing them under their name? But not ALL of their bikes will be made in china? That would be great! If they import like some 250 twins and such, that would be a great idea!

Your right, that is no big deal, actually maybe good for some extra cash for them. This is ok with me as long as I can still buy an American made Harley and every bike they make is not in china.
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Old 12-20-2010, 11:53 AM   #93
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I don't care where H-D builds their bikes. I'm not likely to buy one anyway.
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Old 12-20-2010, 05:11 PM   #94
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Wow, Harley BETTER NOT build their bikes in china! That would be stupid. I would never buy one from china. I mean why? I can go buy a Honda made in Japan or China for cheaper. It would be no different at that point.

And my buddy decided to ditch the chinese scoots. He said he doesn't want a money pit. He decided to go for a Japanese bike or possibly a Taiwanese bike.

But know he is unsure wether or not he wants a scoot. He said they are cool, but a used small 250 cc street bike would probably cost less. I agree with him on that. Why do scooters cost so much? I mean even look on craigslist. He saw a Ninja 250 for like $1600, and he is going to look at it. Those go 100+ MPH, get better gas milage, and are cheaper than a scooter. The only plus on a scooter is the auto CVT and under seat storage, but its all downhill from there.

They are slower than geared bikes. They also require much more frequent oil changes. The small wheels are not a plus either at highway speeds. They also don't seem to get the best gas milage compared to geared bikes. For example, a met or Ruckus get like 100 MPG average, right? But a Honda Cub, or Honda trail get like 150-180 MPG as far as I hear. This is due to the fact that CVTs are always running the engine at somewhat high RPMs. Now this is nice for performance and getting up and going, but if you are just driving around or commuting, it is nice to be able to keep the tach down a bit to get better gas milage.

Now this is an overall general opinion. It is not fact. I am just starting to see this. Now don't get me wrong, I love scooters and actually commute on a 2007 Honda Reflex 250, but these are just some of the things I don't like. I luckily have the cash to afford any reasonably priced scooter or motorcycle, and that is why I got the reflex. It is smooth, quiet, has under seat storage which I love, and I don't mind the automatic in tons of traffic.

BUT I average mid 60s as far as gas milage. This is ok, but I have another friend who commutes on a Honda Rebel 250, and he gets 75 MPG or more according to his Iphone. This it a tad better, and that is with mostly 75 -80 MPH highway riding. My 60-65 MPG on my flex are mostly highway at the same speed as well.

But I think it depends on what you are looking for. But in this case, we top out at the same speed. Both around 80 MPH. I don't have to worry about shifting, I can store way more, the Reflex looks pretty cool, and it is a lot of fun to hop on and go.

I have had no issues mechanically either. But he is still considering a scooter. He does want to try something different. He thinks either a Ninja 250 or a Honda Helix are what he is looking for. He does see a nice Helix for around $1000! So I guess he will just keep researching bikes for now.
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Old 12-20-2010, 06:10 PM   #95
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Never

I would never purchase another Chinese scoot. Wpendthe extra cash and get a good quality used scoot. Kymco, Sym, Piaggio, Aprilia, Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha.
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Old 12-20-2010, 07:53 PM   #96
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Buying a chinese scooter online is like buying a car online that sort of looks like a Camry for $4500, and when it arrives you have to put on the doors, trunk, and wheels and the welds are already rusting. You would have one guy on the internet posting over and over what a rip off Toyota is because this car is so much cheaper, you would have another guy who could rebuild a Nascar engine in his sleep telling you that they are a good deal and only require a bit of mechanical knowledge, and the other 98% of the people would get screwed.
So many times when we replace rear tires on these chinese scooters, and usually because the owner has already plugged it four times and it won't hold air anymore,(very few of them last long enough to need tires), the braking material separates from the rear shoes when you take the rear wheel off. That is one reason Hondas cost more. If their brake shoes disintegrated, they'd get sued.
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Old 12-20-2010, 08:28 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by Warney View Post
Great link. I'm going to use it. this is my favorite line in the whole story- "DesMoinesRegister.com - Customers complain about getting what they paid for"

the problem with google now is that it is heavily weighted towards merchants in the links it returns for searches and it's hard to find good articles like this group in one place.

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Old 12-21-2010, 02:12 AM   #98
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IMO, it is less likely that you would hear from people who are satisfied with their purchases. Complaints are likely to out number the praises when it comes to vehicles.
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Old 12-21-2010, 05:40 AM   #99
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And mechanics don't see the ones that are being ridden every day without problems.

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IMO, it is less likely that you would hear from people who are satisfied with their purchases. Complaints are likely to out number the praises when it comes to vehicles.
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Old 12-21-2010, 05:53 AM   #100
Motovista
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Originally Posted by btcn View Post
And if someone had bought that without the dealer knowing, they could reliably take it back and exchange it for another one. If you buy from a good dealer, you can do the same with the chinese bikes.
From an economic standpoint, a dealer can't afford to stand behind these products. that is why they either become absolute dicks, and stamp every piece of paper that leaves the place with "no returns, no exchanges, no refunds,' or get out of the bottom feeder scooter business. To sell a product you can stand behind means being willing to give up the low end of the business and see people walk out your door and buy somewhere else. And the worst part is that the bottom feeder who didn't buy from you goes back to the dick he bought it from as soon as he starts having problems, doesn't like the level of customer service he got from said dick, and brings it to you so you can tell him how to fix it for free.
Our old shop was about six miles from a place that sells the Gators and Peace of sports and Tao Taos, and we had one guy who decided to prove what a ripoff our stuff was because we don't operate like a flea market and jump up and down and cut our price in half when someone flashes a roll of twenties. He left our shop and went to the other shop and bought a Gator brand scooter, and was on his way back to show us that we were trying to rip him off for $400 for "the exact same mopad", (a Baccio Speedy with at the time a 12 month, 4000 mile parts and labor factory warranty) because they look similar and were both red. The main bearings on the crank failed with 9 miles on the bike and he paid us $25 to take him and the bike back to the dealership, where his 30 day, 300 mile warranty covered the cost of parts, but they charged him about what it costs for an engine and labor to put a new one in. Between the new bike and the "warranty" repairs, he could have bought our Baccio.
I need to compile a list of common repairs on Chinese scooters, so the "Mechanically inclined" can see what they are in for. Far too many of the people who post great things on various forums are in the Chinese scooter business in one manner or another, and only tell the truth when they turn on one another.

Motovista screwed with this post 12-21-2010 at 06:00 AM
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Old 12-21-2010, 08:03 AM   #101
hugemoth
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I could relate a lot of horror stories about American made motorcycles but that doesn't make them all bad.

3 years ago a good friend at work bought a brand new HD, spent over $18K on it. He had the shop put on loud mufflers (gave me the stock ones) and a windshield but otherwise left it stock. His first summer of use he had it towed back to the shop 4 times for EFI computer problems where it sat for weeks at a time, and barely got to put 500 miles on it. The only time I went for a weekend ride with him he ended up riding home on the back of my Goldwing. Finally thought he had the bugs worked out and took a ride from here in Oregon to northern CA where his rear brake caliper fell apart, locking up his rear wheel at highway speed. He managed to free the tangled mess of a caliper and ride the 400 miles home with no rear brake. Nowadays he sticks close to town being afraid to ride it very far.

His original mufflers are still going strong on my little Hensim cruiser bike. The chrome is top notch and they're not too loud. The Hensim now has almost as many miles on it as the HD and has never missed a beat.
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Old 12-21-2010, 11:11 AM   #102
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Wow, that sounds pretty bad! Mine has never had one issue at all and has well over 25,000 miles on it in the last year or so. Yes, sometimes shit like that happens. But look at how many Harleys do things like this compared to the number of china bikes.

There have been Hondas with issues like this, look at my Elite 150, it has actually given me a lot of trouble ending up with a warped cylinder and bad rings. I actually needed to replace the engine in it, and I have had other issues with it. But this doesn't make Honda scooters junk. Now it is going great, and I have put around 5,000 trouble free miles on it since then.

But the point is, chinese scooters in general will not hold up nearly as good over the years, and the majority of them will cost more than their worth over time.
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Old 12-21-2010, 12:11 PM   #103
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There have been Hondas with issues like this, look at my Elite 150, it has actually given me a lot of trouble ending up with a warped cylinder and bad rings..
Cut your Honda some slack. it's 25 years old.
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Old 12-21-2010, 12:37 PM   #104
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Good point MOPED MEDIC. I would like to see a china scoot still on the road in 25 years with only minimal repairs! But it should last a long time from now as it is going great. It is also much faster than a china scoot. Most GY6 150 cc scoots will not hit 70 MPH!
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Old 12-21-2010, 01:07 PM   #105
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chima scoot prices? who needs china scoot prices!

check out these deals if you happen to live in Ohio, near Urbana. i am sure these sorts of deals can be had elsewhere atm, too. plus this dealer makes the wonderful sin of letting us know dealer cost

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2008-...QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2009-...QQcmdZViewItem

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