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Old 07-21-2012, 09:18 AM   #1546
jdrocks OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAFO View Post
I'm a huge fan of naked bikes, and a huge fan of DS bikes. I think I have most of this build figured out except for the pegs. I would love to lose that stupid "sculpture" of a peg mount on each side of the bike, while making it stronger and more suitable for DS use. Any input there?
here's your bike with a few changes...



the passenger footrest mounts are cut off to get rid of the weird "sculpture", not a bad idea no matter the reason because they tend to break off if you drop the bike enough times. the part behind the fracture could end up in the wheel or tire.

alternately, you can bolt on the Versys footrest assemblies, left and right, which gives you a better footrest position at the same time. these parts are harder to find used now that many rat builders are chasing them. you need the whole OEM assembly if you go this route.

possibly the best solution is to make up a set of your own footrest mounts using a steel back plate and bolt on steel dirt bike foot rest mounts. this option lets you optimize the location of the footrest for comfort and standup use. obviously, they're very durable. see the ktmklx rat build thread here, he did a nice job with his.

plan on big footrests, fastways or equal, makes a difference. a good time to fab folding ends for your brake and shifter too.
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Old 07-22-2012, 05:06 AM   #1547
JAFO
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Thanks. Where would I find the KTMKLX build?
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Old 07-22-2012, 05:36 AM   #1548
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Originally Posted by jdrocks View Post
i don't know why so many people are wary of the need for welding on these projects, it's not the space station components being fabricated.
...
forget the welding, that's easy, even for a beginner. designing and fabricating the parts you want to weld, then dealing with fitment, that's more difficult by far.

for any rider thinking about a rat build, but with no welding experience, find a buddy with a modern wire welder and bum a demo. you'll be producing very acceptable welds in a short period of time.
This, times 1000.

Modern wire-feed welders really do make things MUCH simpler.

Here's my "rat truck", shows what can be done with a home welder and no training:
1989 Chevy S10 Blazer, torched off the factory suspension and fabricated my own using 1982 Jeep Wagoneer Dana 44s front and rear


Built my own crossmembers as I had to have a place to mount the leaf spring, and had to cut out the factory cross:


This was not rocket science. It didn't require a plasma cutter or anything more fancy than a $10 Harbor Freight 4.5" Grinder and a good wire-feed welder.

I'll go one further, and say this: if you're in the Charleston, SC area, I will be more than happy to help you with your build, and to teach you how to weld.

For those of you folks really hung up on welding being "difficult": Go to this site and start reading and watching videos- http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/...ding-tips.html
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Old 07-22-2012, 06:46 AM   #1549
jdrocks OP
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Thanks. Where would I find the KTMKLX build?
here ya go, some inspired ideas and pro level skills. as i've often said, these builds can go many directions, and with the smorgasbord of documented mods now in the Ninja/Versys library, it's much easier to build these ptwin based bikes.

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=632255

he's riding this rat bike on some western routes at present, and i expect he'll be back on the forum with a report on his second generation mods.
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Old 07-22-2012, 07:22 AM   #1550
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JDRocks- thanks very much for the info, and all of your documenting of your builds. I am seriously inspired.

Many a time I've thought about getting rid of the 650r... but then I turn the key and throttle and fall in love with that motor all over again.... I knew there was a reason :)

Hope you won't mind my pics above, of my truck- I was trying to show folks that welding shouldn't be a deal-breaker.
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Old 07-22-2012, 08:24 AM   #1551
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Hope you won't mind my pics above, of my truck...
no problem here, but...

forget the truck, get going on the bike build.

what i see in so many builds across various makes and models is that the builder apparently did not have a clear vision of the end product. bike builds are design projects, so the builder needs focus in that area, otherwise forget it, and just order parts from the aftermarket suppliers.

there are many aspects of design in this arena, and certainly performance is one. beyond that, the sum of all the modifications and fabricated parts needs to fit a cohesive vision of what your work will ultimately become. turn the key at the end of the project, mostly, the bikes all run. a good result, but only one of the several you're looking for.
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Old 07-22-2012, 08:41 AM   #1552
JAFO
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Believe me, I completely understand that. The truck's taken me a while to build, specifically because I changed the vision along the way.

I don't yet know *exactly* where I want to end up on the 650r project, so I am researching it and once I have that clear vision, will proceed. It will be handbuilt, with the least possible amount of "open a catalog and get out the creditcard" ...

I know I want to avoid hacking off part of the frame, and will likely use the 650r frame in its entirety (ie, no Versys tail section) as that avoids buying expensive/hard to find Versys plastics like the undertray. I don't have the facilities to fabricate spacers for the trees, so that will likely keep me in a KLR front fork assembly. The rear shock will be an R1 takeoff with the spring you suggested- I have to determine next if the stock 650R swingarm will work with that in terms of ride height, front rake and so on...

JAFO screwed with this post 07-22-2012 at 08:45 AM Reason: typos 'n shit
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Old 07-23-2012, 04:44 AM   #1553
ktmklx
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Hey JD, I am not out west yet. Just pretty busy working and getting ready for the big ride. Not really a big ride, will only be gone 8 days.

I have been working on a luggage mounting system. That looks like a pretty elaborate mount on your earlier Ninja build.
I looked in Twisted Throttle, Tour Tech, and Happy Trail catalogs - no rat or mutant ninja racks on their websites!
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Old 07-23-2012, 07:18 AM   #1554
jdrocks OP
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I don't have the facilities to fabricate spacers for the trees, so that will likely keep me in a KLR front fork assembly. The rear shock will be an R1 takeoff with the spring you suggested- I have to determine next if the stock 650R swingarm will work with that in terms of ride height, front rake and so on...
the machined sleeves used with the DRZ400 forks on the V649 build are a little tricky to make by a home machinist without the right equipment and skill level. the bottom sleeve has a wall thickness of 1.5mm while the top is .5mm. fortunately, these parts are inexpensive through your local machine shop and can be turned out quickly if they have the material on hand. the sleeves are only used if you are mounting the 49mm DRZ forks in the OEM Versys clamps.

many fork options available, including the 41mm KLR forks in the 41mm ER6 clamps, possibly the easiest of all suspension swaps for your bike. the 41mm KLR forks have a uniform diameter inner, and can be moved up and down in the clamps for stance adjustment. in contrast, the 49mm DRZ fork inners are not uniform on the upper tube clamping surface, and only allow about 25mm of adjustment.

the rat with 41mm KLR forks that has been in this thread before is Tony's bike, the granddaddy of the ptwin rats, 4 1/2 years old, still looks good and might be the ultimate low cost solution. forks, wheel, shock, headlight, add a few odds and ends...ride.

Update......current pic:


a variety of USD forks also used, most fitted without undue trouble or expense.

like i said, a smorgasbord of options out there. pick and choose to fit your budget, skill level, and schedule...oops, don't forget your vision.
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Old 07-23-2012, 07:37 AM   #1555
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Hey JD, I am not out west yet. Just pretty busy working and getting ready for the big ride. Not really a big ride, will only be gone 8 days.

I have been working on a luggage mounting system. That looks like a pretty elaborate mount on your earlier Ninja build.
I looked in Twisted Throttle, Tour Tech, and Happy Trail catalogs - no rat or mutant ninja racks on their websites!
thought you were out there earlier. probably good since they went from bone dry to monsoon. some of those roads are a challenge in the mud.

you can fabricate something better than you can ever buy. all the factory mounts leave you with a fat assed bike once the panniers are mounted, and man, i hate a fat assed bike. odd angles and alignment issues too that rarely fit in with a good design strategy.

i like to have the mounts in as tight as possible to the bike, and it doesn't take a P.E. after your name to determine that this mount will be more durable and survivable. the mount can't be breaking or bending every time the bike touches the ground. would be inconvenient for me, since the rat has been known to take a nap or two...or three or four.

safe travels, we'll need a report and a rat bike evaluation.
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Old 07-23-2012, 10:58 AM   #1556
pjm204
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Save yourself some work lurkers

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=805408
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Past bikes: XT225, TTR125, '04 CRF50 '74 DT125,'70 TS250,'85 v45, '89 zx600c, '78 GS400x, '99 GS500E, '01 GS500E '05 Z750s, '77 GS400e, '82 GS1100ez, '97 GSX600, '07 VFR800, '03 KLR650, '03 FJR1300, '06 DL1000, '00 KLR650, '99 WR360, '08 DL650, '05 DR650, '08 EX650r, '96 CR500, '82 GS450T, '06 Ural
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Old 07-23-2012, 02:44 PM   #1557
jdrocks OP
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surprising to find you have a broken arm! hope you heal up quick.

pjm rat bike for sale here...

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=805408

that link was put up in here on July 4.


sheeeeesh, kids!
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Old 07-23-2012, 09:25 PM   #1558
JAFO
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"Have a vision", the man says....

..... and I'm forming one up...

I didn't realize it would be possible to keep the OEM headlights in this conversion- I quite like them. I believe it was the KTMKLX build that showed me how to do it...

so I've put the words out to the local guys-

If you guys have lines on the following parts, let me know:

All parts specc'd by year, "or compatible":
-2008 KLR forks
-2008 R1 rear shock
-2006 Kawi Z1000 headlight fairing
-SW Motech first-gen Versys crashbars.

The rest of it I'll have to fabricate.

The actual goal? Something more like a poor-man's KTM 990 Supermoto than a true "dirt ninja"...
This: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog....990smr_450.jpg

Looking at that- seems as though I won't even need to change the wheels. I wonder- if I fit the 2008 R1 rear shock, that ought to give me lift in the rear... and I am pretty sure I've seen folks lift the front of bikes by way of fork extensions that thread into the existing caps- or am I nuts?

I can see where that might seem dangerous- but with proper machining of the threads, and proper assembly (thinking loctite Red?) I don't know why it wouldn't be viable...

I found a set of 2008 KLR650 forks for $300. Seems a tad high, but I haven't really shopped yet- and there are other 41mm forks. I assume the concerns for swapping forks are diameter of the tubes, axle width, wheel bearing ID and OD, and that ought to be it?

JAFO screwed with this post 07-24-2012 at 11:21 AM
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Old 07-24-2012, 05:45 AM   #1559
pjm204
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Originally Posted by jdrocks View Post
that link was put up in here on July 4.


sheeeeesh, kids!
Haha, sorry but I have an excuse, I'm crippled. Hard to believe it's been almost 5 weeks.This is the longest I've gone without riding since I started riding. My goal is a ride to a friend's wedding October 6th
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Old 07-28-2012, 03:25 PM   #1560
jdrocks OP
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V649HP on the road this year...


Travels with jdrocks 2012
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