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Old 12-18-2010, 08:33 AM   #16
Wirespokes
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I don't imagine it could hurt it any more to run it now, but I'd imagine the valve guides (at a minimum) are sloppy. Change the oil and filter and cut it open. Show us what you find.

Cleaning the plugs (after extended running with the choke) should get it running again. After seizing, tolerances will be looser and besides greater oil consumption you'll probably hear interesting new sounds, especially when cold.
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Old 12-18-2010, 09:08 AM   #17
ed mocz
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Have you brother read this thread as we go along and help you fix the bike. Reminds me of when I was little, me and the neighbor stuffed my brothers rebuild Ford flat head with grass and dirt. He almost laughs about it 40 some years later.
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Old 12-18-2010, 08:10 PM   #18
Roach Carver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcma111 View Post

Also your brother must buy all of the beer necessary for the above work to be preformed and stand by, watching you work in his underware, freezing his ass off. Some people have NO clue and I guess you have one. Sorry.
Why does he have to wear his brothers underwear. has he not suffered enough?
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Old 12-18-2010, 08:43 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Roach Carver View Post
Why does he have to wear his brothers underwear. has he not suffered enough?
Zie duetsche alvays wear zie undervear of those who've wronged us most. Zats just the vay vee are.
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Old 12-18-2010, 10:33 PM   #20
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How old is this little brother?
If I missed it somewhere, I apologize.
Why did he have access to the bike and the key??
Are you nuts??

I'm a little brother, and I'm damned glad that when my brother was away in the military back in 1972 I did not have access to his bike key!
If i had, I probably would not be alive today. Either from crashing the bike I had no business riding at 14, or from him killing me when he came home from overseas and found out I had touched his baby.

Course now that we are both in our fifties and live next door to each other, I am the only one he trusts to work on or ride either one of his BMWs!
Go figure!

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Old 12-19-2010, 06:32 AM   #21
mcma111
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Originally Posted by mcma111 View Post

Also your brother must stand by in his underware, freezing his ass off, watching you work.

There, Better?
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Old 12-19-2010, 07:09 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcma111

Also your brother must stand by in his underware, freezing his ass off, watching you work.



There, Better?
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Old 12-19-2010, 07:35 AM   #23
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How old is your little brother, that has a lot to do with what happens to him.
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Old 12-19-2010, 08:00 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Ben Carufel View Post
Start by kicking your brother's ass.
I would make him hurt. Bad. Then take all the money he sold the tractor for.


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Old 12-19-2010, 01:22 PM   #25
jimbee OP
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Happy Sunday

My brother is 22 years old, but his common sense is often suspect.

He got the key, because I let him have it. We have just finished the massive job of cleaning out 30 yrs of crap from my Dad's house and selling it. My brother was charged with selling the nice Snapper ride-on and he called me in a panic that someone was coming to look at the mower any moment and it wouldn't turn over. I was in the middle of a million more important things to do with the sale of the house and told him he could jump start the tractor off the bike just this once and never again. I ignored the alarm bells and red flags that were going off in my head, and explained where the key was and how to start the bike over the phone. Just as he got the bike started, he hung up on me as the potential buyer was calling on the other line. I WRONGLY assumed he would jump the mower and turn off the bike, instead the mower didn't start and so he thought he would let the bike run for a while to charge the mower's battery. I ACKNOWLEDGE THAT I'M ALSO RESPONSIBLE FOR THE OUTCOME BY FACILITATING MY BROTHER GETTING HIMSELF IN A POSITION WHERE HE COULD HURT THE BIKE. I exihibited a lack of common sense here as well! Is this why I must wear his tighty whities?? Well, I think I've already received my punishement a hundred fold!

I too am a little brother to my big brother and there is the small issue of KARMA here. About a year ago, I offered to help give my big brother's new to him DR650 a thorough once over and tune up. In the process, I didn't see that below the angled spark plugs there was a good place for dirt and gravel to accumulate and when I removed one of the plugs, a teaspoon worth of gravely dirt fell into the cylinder. I didn't have the tools, parts, or time to open it up and clean up the mess, but without a doubt I paid the shop bill.

Yesterday, I dropped by Shail's and had a talk with Shail. He, like you all here, suggested to start by pulling the jugs and just taking a look. He made an interesting point that the conecting rod bearings are weaker than the main bearings and so if I inspect the connecting rod bearings and they still look and feel good, then the bottom end is likely fine. As suggested here, he said to look very carefully at the cylinder walls and piston for signs that they made contact. He also suggested dropping the oil pan to look for metal, in addition to cutting open the oil filter.

I'm in the process of making some room in a family member's garage to get started and in the next day or so I hope to pull the cans and provide some pictures. My tools and garage are in Reno, while the GS and I are in Vancouver - this is going to be a good test of my on-bike tool kit to see if I really do have everything I need!

mcma111 - thank you for the offer. we'll see if I have to take you up on it....

On an unrelated note, while at Shail's I saw an interesting 89 GSPD on consignment with some sort of custom WP front fork set up with a nice big rotor and caliper. The asking price is $5,500. A new front end is my #1 dream upgrade and now I'm dreaming of buying the bike, swapping the front ends, and then selling it in the spring.... dream dream dream...
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jimbee screwed with this post 12-19-2010 at 01:29 PM
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Old 12-19-2010, 01:34 PM   #26
wirewrkr
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[QUOTE=Yesterday, I dropped by Shail's and had a talk with Shail. He, like you all here, suggested to start by pulling the jugs and just taking a look. He made an interesting point that the conecting rod bearings are weaker than the main bearings and so if I inspect the connecting rod bearings and they still look and feel good, then the bottom end is likely fine. As suggested here, he said to look very carefully at the cylinder walls and piston for signs that they made contact. He also suggested dropping the oil pan to look for metal, in addition to cutting open the oil filter.[/QUOTE]

Very good advice from Shails concerning the rod shells.
If they're fine, reassemble (with new rod bolts of course)
And deal with the scorched top end. And it's always a good idea to clean out the oil pan.
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Old 12-19-2010, 07:36 PM   #27
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Change the pushrod seals while you are at it. Also de-carbon the pistons and perhaps new rings as well since the pistons are exposed.

Cheers
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Old 12-22-2010, 11:41 PM   #28
jimbee OP
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So, finally had some time to do some investigating and thought I would check in with an update and some questions.

Shoehorned the bike into my mum's garage (she's really happy I've come home for the holdiays now)




Started to taked things apart when I noticed a strange rubbery compound that had solidified after leaking out of drain hole above the dipstick




Pulled the top cover and looked down beside starter to see pile of melted plastic complete with a spring and some sort of black circular seal (guess it got rather hot!)



Pulled the starter (I wish it was easier to get the lefthand starter bolt out with the transmission still in place) to clean up the mess. Looked at some old tearing the bike apart pictures to see that the black vent tube used to have a valve sitting on the top. THe parts fiche includes the valve in the return air emission system, which has been removed. Do I need to order a new valve, or just cap the vent?




Next I drained the oil (barely any came out) and disected the oil filter. The outside folds were filled with a wierd brown flakey material that I could not identify, but I was pretty sure that I couldn't find any metal in the mess (even used a magnet).




I was confused by the mess and then pulled the oil pan only to find the oil pump pickup screen covered in larger chuncks of the same material?




I was racking my brain trying to thing what had dissentegrated to produce this plastic like material? Oil pump? Hmmm I don't know....


So I cleaned up the working area from all the nasty smelly burnt oil and began in on taking off the jugs. As soon as I got the valve covers off, the source of the plastic became very apparent. The plastic spacers between the valve rockers and the mounting blocks had dissentegrated (some completely), presumably becuase the oil supply stopped once enough oil had burnt up. Little (and some larger) plastic pieces where all around.

Next I pulled the heads to find what looks to be melted plastic on the heads (just checked maintaince log and the heads were rebuilt less than 1,000 miles ago).




The piston had the same build up.




So far it was pretty messy, with melted plastic here and there, but the good news was that to my untrained eyes, I couldn't see any sign of damage to the cylinder walls or pistons, nor could I feel any with my finger nail.




So, I am taking that as a good sign, but don't know whether or not to stop here. I didn't have a set of snap ring pliers to take off the piston, or the right socket to remove the connecting rod of the crankshaft (something I've never done before), and so I called it a night.

Is it still a good idea to pull the connecting rods and inspect the shells or are the clean cylinder walls enough?

If I do pull the shells, is it good to replace them even if they look good?

Do you think that I should have the heads rebuilt again, or just carefully remove as much plastic as possible?

Should I be replacing the piston? Or the rings (again less than 1,000 miles on the rings)?

Shail's is open tomorrow, but then closed for two weeks, so if I'm going for parts I need to do it tomorrow.

In an slightly unrelated note, one of the cylinder studs is loose and I can remove it by hand. At this time, I don't think that it has stripped the case. What is the best way to reinstall the cylinder stud (I should do a search here and I will)? Double up on two nuts and torque it in with some locktite?

Well that's the news from here. Hope you are all well. Cheers, JB
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Old 12-23-2010, 04:21 AM   #29
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That valve sure looks weird. I have no technical advice for you, I'd just take the two heads, cylinders w/ pistons into the shop and see what they say. The cylinder walls do look impressive for that kind of abuse. Hope your genius brother steps up to the plate with his wallet.
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Old 12-23-2010, 06:08 AM   #30
One Less Harley
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You might as well pull the connecting rods. It's easy to do and check the bearing shells. Depending on mileage I'd probably replace the rod bearings anyway.

Here's a link you you on a head job on a G/S.

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=533058
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