ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Old's Cool > Airheads
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 12-23-2010, 06:21 AM   #31
Bill Harris
Confirmed Curmudgeon
 
Bill Harris's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2008
Location: backwoods Alabama
Oddometer: 6,102
Agree with Jasper-- take the heads, jugs and pistons to a shop for measurement and inspection. The big issue with a major overheat is warping, of the valves and especially of the aluminum. Pull the rods, inspect the rod journal and shells-- you're too close not to, and the tools won't cost much.

Do it now, or do it again later... :)
__________________
'73 R60/5 Toaster
Luddite. Not just a philosophy, a way of life...
Bill Harris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2010, 06:37 AM   #32
Wirespokes
Beemerholics Anonymous
 
Wirespokes's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2002
Location: Jackson's Bottom Oregon
Oddometer: 7,755
Pull the rod that's last on oil delivery - I think it's the left side. If it looks good, then the other will be fine. No need to replace if it does look good, since it's pretty easy to tell when they're worn or damaged.

Go to any auto parts store and get a VW bug rod tool, I think that's what it was. It's pretty common and cheap - I recall spending something like five or seven bucks.

How much oil was left - a quart?

The carbon on the piston and head could have come from break-in, and doesn't really look that bad.

If the engine didn't seize, I'm curious why it stopped running. The valve lash would have been very large due to the disintigrated spacers, and perhaps that was it. I'm really curious how the heads check out. You could pour water into the chambers to test valve seating, but that won't tell you if the guides are fried, which I'd imagine is the case. I'm curious about warpage as well. You might be lucky and only need to get the heads done.

As for the stud, I'm thinking the red loctite (permanent) should do it. For real peace of mind a Timesert would be the way to go.

__________________
Wanted: Dead, smashed, crashed or trashed gauges
BMW GAUGE REPAIRS - TACH*SPEEDO*CLOCK*VOLT METER *PODs & LIGHT BOARD*
Wirespokes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2010, 07:03 AM   #33
CurlyMike
Formerly SaddleSoar
 
CurlyMike's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: east of Dallas
Oddometer: 977



The piston had the same build up.






So a bit off subject, but a good time to help educate me. Anytime I do any head work, valves, new rings and a fresh hone—I always clean all of the carbon off of the top of the piston and the heads. Are these picts normal build-up for just 1,000 miles of riding? Seems like, if a shop did the work, they would do the same thing cleaning carbon. Yes? No?
__________________
Giving the horses and the wife a break from riding...
CurlyMike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2010, 07:15 AM   #34
Wirespokes
Beemerholics Anonymous
 
Wirespokes's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2002
Location: Jackson's Bottom Oregon
Oddometer: 7,755
Quote:
Originally Posted by CurlyMike View Post
I always clean all of the carbon off of the top of the piston and the heads. Are these picts normal build-up for just 1,000 miles of riding? Seems like, if a shop did the work, they would do the same thing cleaning carbon. Yes? No?
Normally, break-in sees the most oil consumption while rings are seating, so the most carbon build up occurs during that time. I'm sure some of the build up we see is from the most recent incident, and I'm curious how much that wide open choke possibly helped prevent serious damage to the bike. The overly-rich mixture had to have helped cool things down at least a little.

Carbon isn't a good thing, so cleaning it off is the right way to go. Some polish the combustion chamber to help prevent that build-up and I guess it does, though I don't know how much. I usually do.
__________________
Wanted: Dead, smashed, crashed or trashed gauges
BMW GAUGE REPAIRS - TACH*SPEEDO*CLOCK*VOLT METER *PODs & LIGHT BOARD*
Wirespokes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2010, 07:28 AM   #35
wirewrkr
the thread-killer
 
wirewrkr's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2008
Location: HIGH desert
Oddometer: 4,297
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wirespokes View Post
Normally, break-in sees the most oil consumption while rings are seating, so the most carbon build up occurs during that time. I'm sure some of the build up we see is from the most recent incident, and I'm curious how much that wide open choke possibly helped prevent serious damage to the bike. The overly-rich mixture had to have helped cool things down at least a little.

Carbon isn't a good thing, so cleaning it off is the right way to go. Some polish the combustion chamber to help prevent that build-up and I guess it does, though I don't know how much. I usually do.
If it were me.............
I would have my brother do all the dirty work.
Clean (decarbon) the heads and piston tops, pull the rods, if the shells look good, put them back.
Always with new bolts.
reassemble and see what happens.
Clean clean clean everything first, replace all gaskets removed, I revommend factory gaskets, don't cheap out.

Keep in mind, you will ALWAYS find something "out of spec" if everything is disassembled and carefully measured. So, unless your brother has deep pockets and is paying the bill, reassemble and check compression, and then ride the damned thing.
__________________

www.wirewerkes.com
KILL YOUR TELEVISION !!!!
wirewrkr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2010, 07:50 AM   #36
mykill
odd
 
mykill's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Oddometer: 1,156
Lifters

You should pull your lifters out and inspect while you are in there.
__________________
Never underestimate the laxative properties of motorcycling.
mykill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2010, 08:33 AM   #37
fishkens
Further...
 
Joined: Nov 2009
Location: Seattle, WA
Oddometer: 5,147
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbee View Post
Do I need to order a new valve, or just cap the vent?
The melted valve is way low on your priority list but I recommend just plugging that vent. I've had mine plugged for years and many others have done the same.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbee View Post
Is it still a good idea to pull the connecting rods and inspect the shells or are the clean cylinder walls enough?

If I do pull the shells, is it good to replace them even if they look good?
I
I agree with others that you should pull the rods and inspect the bearings.

Question for the team:

When i did this I used plasti gauge to measure the crank to bearing clearance before buying shells. Is that recommended or should he just buy standard size replacement shells and install 'em?
__________________
Forging ahead, down a false trail.
fishkens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2010, 08:57 AM   #38
Cogswell
Spudly Adventurer
 
Cogswell's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: Riding with my pal Richard Cranium
Oddometer: 3,887
Amazingly clean for what that motor must have gone through.

In addition to rod bearings and valve guides as mentioned above I would be inclined to check the rings, as they may have lost tension due to the extreme heat.

Good luck.

Mike
__________________
Cogswell Rides To Big Bend
See my airhead project here
Time Warp Vintage Motorcycle Club
The good thing is, your damn motor can't read. If it says oil on the container, it's pretty much OK to dump in there.... ED.
Cogswell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2010, 09:05 AM   #39
fishkens
Further...
 
Joined: Nov 2009
Location: Seattle, WA
Oddometer: 5,147
Quote:
Originally Posted by One Less Harley View Post
Here's a link you you on a head job on a G/S.

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=533058
OLH - Thanks for posting that thread. Nice work (as usual). I've bookmarked it.

One more question for the team on balancing rods and pistons.

I understand that there's static and dynamic balancing. I "balanced" my rods and pistons by measuring on a digital scale and grinding off a small amount of excess on the sides of the rod.

My engine was noticeably smoother after this but it was kind of a mess before and I also replaced cylinders and pistons.

What's the proper way to balance pistons and rods and is dynamic balancing noticeably better?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wirespokes View Post
If the engine didn't seize, I'm curious why it stopped running.
Did it run out of gas?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wirespokes View Post
You could pour water into the chambers to test valve seating...
Years ago my dad suggested using gasoline for this test. Does it matter?



OP: Keep up the great work!
__________________
Forging ahead, down a false trail.
fishkens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2010, 09:10 AM   #40
outfit
Studly Adventurer
 
outfit's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2008
Location: Orkney Isles
Oddometer: 644
Going off the nature of you're brother's lack of mechanical sympathy, I would keep him as far away as possible at rebuild time.
outfit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2010, 09:23 AM   #41
fishkens
Further...
 
Joined: Nov 2009
Location: Seattle, WA
Oddometer: 5,147
Quote:
Originally Posted by outfit View Post
Going off the nature of you're brother's lack of mechanical sympathy, I would keep him as far away as possible at rebuild time.
C'mon people, he's got to learn sometime. Who here hasn't done something stupid and then been guided down the path of mechanical righteousness?

When I was a kid I was "helping" in my dad's tool and die shop I drilled and tapped some screw holes before installing the dowels and made a mess of the die set. I remember my dad's look of disappointment 30 years later. He didn't yell but helped me fix the problem. Thanks, Dad.

Hopefully the bro isn't entirely unsympathetic and will learn from this.
__________________
Forging ahead, down a false trail.
fishkens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2010, 09:31 AM   #42
Jasper ST4
Guest
 
Oddometer: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishkens View Post
C'mon people, he's got to learn sometime. Who here hasn't done something stupid and then been guided down the path of mechanical righteousness?

When I was a kid I was "helping" in my dad's tool and die shop I drilled and tapped some screw holes before installing the dowels and made a mess of the die set. I remember my dad's look of disappointment 30 years later. He didn't yell but helped me fix the problem. Thanks, Dad.

Hopefully the bro isn't entirely unsympathetic and will learn from this.
Well, we've all made stupid mistakes but few of us wouldn't realize that a motorcycle wasn't meant to be run as a generator. If not, surely the motor begging for mercy wouldn't have drawn some notice.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2010, 11:03 AM   #43
jimbee OP
Airhead Intermediate
 
jimbee's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2008
Location: Vancouver BC / Reno NV
Oddometer: 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by One Less Harley View Post
You might as well pull the connecting rods. It's easy to do and check the bearing shells. Depending on mileage I'd probably replace the rod bearings anyway.

Here's a link you you on a head job on a G/S.

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=533058

Thank you OLH - great thread w great pictures - very helpful

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wirespokes View Post
How much oil was left - a quart?
Waaaaayyyy less than a quart (still managed to make an impressive mess in the shop though!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mykill View Post
You should pull your lifters out and inspect while you are in there.
I don't really know what this means. Are these the things that follow the camshaft and actuate the push rods? How do I inspect them?

Well, I'm off to Shails with a shopping list of gaskets, snap rings, bolts, etc, as well as the heads, cylinders, and pistons to see what he has to say. OLH - you brought your connecting rods in for balancing. I haven't had time to go accross town to get the connecting rod 12 point tool, so I'm not bringing them in at this time. I am going to pull them and replace the shells but should I bring them in to be balanced later?

Thank you all!!!
__________________
R100GS for going far, FZ1 for going fast, TE250 for getting dirty, and DR650 for when one of the others needs work
jimbee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2010, 11:30 AM   #44
Country Doc
Wanderer
 
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: somwhere north of Kingston, Ontario
Oddometer: 2,660
I personally wouldn't worry about dynamically balancing your crank/conrods/etc unless you're specifically building up a high-dollar motor and want to take every step possible. Replacing the con-rod bearings sounds like a must-do after what your motor has been through.

Re: the lifters -> they are the "cam followers" - metal cylinders that have a flat surface that rides on the cam lobes, and have a depression in the other side that locates the end of the pushrod. When you remove the pushrod (mark what end goes with the lifter and with the rocker arm, reassemble the same way), put a magnet-on-a-stick down the hole where your pushrod seals used to be, and you'll be able to fish the lifters out.

Inspect the hardened flat end for any pitting/galling/etc. It should (though likely won't) be smooth and shiny.

Hope that helps,
dc
Country Doc is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2010, 11:49 AM   #45
jimbee OP
Airhead Intermediate
 
jimbee's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2008
Location: Vancouver BC / Reno NV
Oddometer: 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Country Doc View Post
I personally wouldn't worry about dynamically balancing your crank/conrods/etc unless you're specifically building up a high-dollar motor and want to take every step possible. Replacing the con-rod bearings sounds like a must-do after what your motor has been through.

Re: the lifters -> they are the "cam followers" - metal cylinders that have a flat surface that rides on the cam lobes, and have a depression in the other side that locates the end of the pushrod. When you remove the pushrod (mark what end goes with the lifter and with the rocker arm, reassemble the same way), put a magnet-on-a-stick down the hole where your pushrod seals used to be, and you'll be able to fish the lifters out.

Inspect the hardened flat end for any pitting/galling/etc. It should (though likely won't) be smooth and shiny.

Hope that helps,
dc
Thanks much. Pulled out all four and no pitting!! Pheffewwff :)
__________________
R100GS for going far, FZ1 for going fast, TE250 for getting dirty, and DR650 for when one of the others needs work
jimbee is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 05:13 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014