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Old 09-27-2012, 07:14 PM   #256
ER70S-2
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Nice write-up. Is there a clearance issue requiring the countersunk screws?

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Originally Posted by wee-twin View Post
Thank you for sharing the details. Next rainy day, I will be making one.
This should be put in the DR specific section in top of thumpers.
Bill


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Good work Steve!
Hey, Lukas.
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Old 09-27-2012, 07:48 PM   #257
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Originally Posted by ER70S-2 View Post
Nice write-up. Is there a clearance issue requiring the countersunk screws?
Yep.

The one I built first has the plate sitting flush with the cases and the delrin keeper is over the case, but somewhat sits inside the chain run over the sprocket. This MkII version is easier to make, and sits outside the cases by <> 1 mm.

On my first one, I used a stud for the #1 position because that was all I could come up with in my shed on the day, and I also used a very thin nut because the chain at fuller suspension travel is up there, and it also flaps sideways a bit too, so the cs screws are essential for the #1, and for #3 on this version, because it all sits out a bit further, to clear the sprocket cover. The net result here is that the MkII with a cs screw is in the same position as the MkI's end of the stud and face of the thin nut. Its then easier to make all 3 cs and it means that the whole assemblty sits <>4 mm out from the cases.

Gobbledgook, or make some sense?

I'm using a 520 chain, currently an RK EXW which is a very wide 520. There is some witness rubbing of it on my MkI from the chain, but its negligible, and only on the Delrin bit, not the #1 stud. As the MkII is actually a net slightly lower profile, I think it'll be OK, but be good to test with a stock 525 to confirm. I have a mate up the road a bit who still has a 525 on his and we'll try it out there, but he's just come out of surgery, so might be a couple of weeks.

In the meantime, I've had some inquiries about supplying more, so I've bounced it to ProCycle to see if they want to make them and add them to their catalogue. Still, I guess I have the time to do a few from time to time if there is ongoing interest, but I don't want to turn this into a vendor/for sale thread. so pm me if you want to know more about supply.

Also, its a bit fiddly to assemble, holding all the spacers in place and getting the 3 screws in the right spot, but once its there, it only needs to come off for seal replacement and/or engine disassembly because it doesn't interfere with the sprocket cover.

I do feel that they are not too hard to make with basic handtools, apart from the spacers, so over to you guys....
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Old 09-27-2012, 07:50 PM   #258
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Thank you for sharing the details. Next rainy day, I will be making one. This should be put in the DR specific section in top of thumpers.

Bill
So where, how, whatever?
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Old 09-27-2012, 07:55 PM   #259
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Thanks for the explanation.

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So where, how, whatever?
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...2&postcount=32
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"BTW, I don't do style. It's a dirt bike, not some girlie dress-up thing." -

ER70S-2 screwed with this post 09-27-2012 at 08:06 PM
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Old 09-27-2012, 08:16 PM   #260
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Done

#78
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showt...=636395&page=6
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Old 09-27-2012, 11:15 PM   #261
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I do feel that they are not too hard to make with basic handtools, apart from the spacers, so over to you guys....
So you can cut out the 3mm aluminium with a hand saw? Or should I go out and buy a jigsaw?
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Old 09-27-2012, 11:58 PM   #262
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So you can cut out the 3mm aluminium with a hand saw? Or should I go out and buy a jigsaw?
Aluminium is a good metal to work with because its 'soft'. You can use any hardened tools to cut and shape it, like most woodworking tools. Cutting the sheet you can use heavy duty shears, or an aluminium cutting disc in an angle grinder, 4" is good, or a carbide tipped blade in a circular saw. And an electric jigsaw with a medium wood blade is good. A hack saw is fine too, in the jig saw, or hand frame, but the coarser blades are better, as are coarser files, because otherwise they can clog up too easily. Bench grinders, or steel angle grinder discs are not a good idea because they'll clog. And make sure the work is well secured when using power tools especially. A hole saw works well for the 35 mm big hole too, but a round file from a smaller hole will get you there eventually.

And if you are using power tools especially, protect your eyes from debris, you don't want aluminium shrapnel in there

Maybe the biggest challenge in making this is getting the geometry right, measure at least twice as they say, then cut once
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Old 09-28-2012, 12:47 AM   #263
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And we have another thread now over on DRR on CSS popping:
http://drriders.com/topic5922.html
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Old 09-29-2012, 01:25 AM   #264
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And we have another thread now over on DRR on CSS popping:
http://drriders.com/topic5922.html
I posted over there just now, but in an attempt to keep this thread self contained for the time being, copied below FYI:

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Originally Posted by BergDonk
Not Good News, Depending....

Long story short, I ended up at short notice going up to the big smoke today, and while I was killing time waiting for SWMBO, I visited my invalid mate and did a test fit of the retainer on his bike which has a stock size 525 RK GXW chain, so being a top line RK, and based on my EXW experience, likely a bit wider than some/most 525s.

It all bolts up fine, and no worries fitting his VSM cover, BUT there is only 1-1.5 mm clearance between the end of the pins and the face of the plate. As the sprocket wobbles about a bit, and the chain can move sideways and flap a bit, its not really enough. Its a get out of gaol solution, but it will rub, so not really a good idea as an insurance policy. The face of the plate needs to be in line with the case, and not proud of it, but it can step out and around under the chain. Which means a 14 t css might be problematic too. Maybe a thin bit of sheet steel like the pre 96 DR650 or TLs had is a better universal solution.

So, in its current form, I believe its OK for a 520, but not really suited to a 525.

What was also of interest, was that his seal wasn't in line with the inside of the bevel in the case, but out a bit, maybe 0.5 mm. We wondered whether it had always been like that, or popped just a bit at some point. As a result, the outer face of the seal is not in full contact with the case and may not therefore be fully held. We decided to leave it as rather than risk breaking the bond by pushing it in fully. Right decision? Dunno, yet.

But, my mate has a bigger lathe than me and reckons with his 4 jaw chuck and some 6-8 mm plate he'll make one up for himself that has the requisite step as he rehabs, but these will be for him only, and maybe 1 or 2 extras, so won't be available.

I have an idea for a MKIII. I'll still to use one piece of sheet, but make up a die so I can press the retainer bit out, and the rest will be low profile and mimic my MKI design, which is also then probably still too bulky for a 525. If that doesn't work, I have an idea for a MKIV too, so I will crack it, just be patient, but if you want a 520 version, its good to go as is.
So my MKI version works fine for me, and so would the MKII. I'll work on a more universal MKIII in the days to come.
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Old 09-29-2012, 10:17 AM   #265
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I love the MKI, MKII, MKIII, MKIV mindset.

I have a 'tool stupid' buddy. I showed him something I had made and pointed out why it wouldn't quite work as I intended. His reply "So you were wrong": heavy emphasis on wrong. To him that was it, done, failed, wrong. Idjit.

Mankind has robots on Mars and you can bet that quitting after MKI isn't how it got done.
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Old 09-29-2012, 11:21 AM   #266
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Originally Posted by ER70S-2 View Post
I love the MKI, MKII, MKIII, MKIV mindset.

I have a 'tool stupid' buddy. I showed him something I had made and pointed out why it wouldn't quite work as I intended. His reply "So you were wrong": heavy emphasis on wrong. To him that was it, done, failed, wrong. Idjit.

Mankind has robots on Mars and you can bet that quitting after MKI isn't how it got done.
You friend is no innovator. Has he never heard the expression "back to the drawing board"?
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Old 09-29-2012, 03:45 PM   #267
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Originally Posted by ER70S-2 View Post
I love the MKI, MKII, MKIII, MKIV mindset.

I have a 'tool stupid' buddy. I showed him something I had made and pointed out why it wouldn't quite work as I intended. His reply "So you were wrong": heavy emphasis on wrong. To him that was it, done, failed, wrong. Idjit.

Mankind has robots on Mars and you can bet that quitting after MKI isn't how it got done.
Nothing is ever finished, everything is only ever transitory, but the frequency can vary......

MKI solves my needs
MKII is/was an attempt to make a simpler version of MKI that most anyone could make with basic hand tools (except the spacers I guess) and it is a success doing that, but only for 520s
MKIII+ will be more complicated to make due to the space limitations of the 525

Off to the shed
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Old 09-29-2012, 04:00 PM   #268
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I don't get why we can't just make it out of 2mm plate and make the bolts and spacers a bit shorter and use a 1mm thinner tap washer to make it all fit?
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Old 09-29-2012, 04:14 PM   #269
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I don't get why we can't just make it out of 2mm plate and make the bolts and spacers a bit shorter and use a 1mm thinner tap washer to make it all fit?
No reason at all.

The thing was, I only had 2 mm thick washers available at the time, and a quantity of 3 mm sheet. If I look hard enough, I may have a suitable O ring. I also liked the idea of having the plate a bit proud of the case so they can't fret with vibes at all. Really an issue? Probably not. The tap washer, although nominally 2 mm, is less, and the space from the case is also a bit less than 1 mm, so it ends up with a small crush on the seal, which seemed like a good idea. But I'm no expert, just years of mucking about in the shed.

And just for you Kernel, and off DR650s topic here is pics of what my first bike evolved into just before sale:



Hint, started out a CB500, ended up with shed built monocoque frame and?
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Old 09-29-2012, 04:56 PM   #270
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I don't get why we can't just make it out of 2mm plate and make the bolts and spacers a bit shorter and use a 1mm thinner tap washer to make it all fit?
Or 1 mm sheet steel?

I liked the idea of 3 mm and keeping it flat so so creases for fatigue failure propagation and ease of manufacture.

Just been rummaging and the thinnest O ring I have is 1.5 mm dia. If I revert to MKI, I machined a 1 mm lip on the nylon so that works too, but more machining and fiddlier.

Could even leave the washer/O ring out all together. If the seal moves, it can't fall out, and likely won't leak either, so choices.
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