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Old 02-01-2015, 10:39 AM   #1
MrPulldown OP
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LED Turn Signals, Flasher Relays, and Diode Kits

One stop shop for converting to LED turn signals. This is basically a thread merge from some other stuff I have/had for sale. All prices includes shipping to the CONUS. Paypal payments preferred. Please PM me, and I will take care of you. Parts are in stock and ship from Truckee (96161) California, and will get to all locations within the CONUS in 2-4 days. I use USPS first class (no tracking) for most of my shipping. If you need Priority (2 days to the east coast) or tracking please let me know.

-LED Turn signals, 1 pair. $18
-2 pin No load LED type Flasher relay. $9
-Diode Kit. $9
-7 pin late model Suzuki LED Flasher relay. $18

Combo sales
-1 pair turn signal + Flasher Relay. $25
-2 pairs, turn signal + Flasher relay + Diode. $45
Above are the prices for various popular combos. PM me the items you need. I will give you a discounted price for multiply items.


LED Turn Signals
This is my favorite Dual Sport LED turn signal. It has a high LED count. The lens is amber which is the appropriate color per the DOT. I do not believe these are actually DOT legal, but I have never had a problem. They have a rubber mounting base, so that they bend instead of break when you drop your bike. About 2.5" long. Have LEDs on the side/tip of the TS so that traffic coming from the side can see the indicator. These will most likely require a no-load LED TS flasher relay.





One pair of clear lens, amber light TSs left for sale. Some like the Euro or J-Spec look. I am no longer going to stock these due to the low demand.


this is the original ad for the flasher relays
http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=920826

MrPulldown screwed with this post 04-06-2015 at 02:12 PM
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Old 02-01-2015, 10:02 PM   #2
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Part on right is the No Load Flasher Relay, part on left is OEM Suzuki. The orientation of the prongs does not effect it's mounting or function.




Flasher Relay
Riding dual sport you tend to go through turn signals like they were a consumable. Drop the bike, lean it against a tree, loan it to a friend and you end up with a busted turn signal. Japanese, Euro, and some American bikes use a thermal/mechanical turn signal flasher relay. These rely on the resistance from your incandescent turn signal bulbs to flash the relay. My bike can stock with a 21 watt turn signal bulb. The first replacement turn signal I bought came with a 10 watt bulb. The result: blinker no flashy. One can not always simply replace the bulb either. Often these are mini bases which do not support high wattage bulbs, or only hard to source and expensive specialty bulbs have the correct wattage. From my experience a 23 watt bulbs works great, but a 17.9 will not provide enough load to flash the stock relay. Vendors often react like they never heard of this. Most have no idea what wattage the turn signals they sell operate at, or even list the wattage as a spec.

These no load turn signal flasher relays are all electronic. They will flash the turn signals at a steady rate no matter what size (wattage) bulb. I first looked into these so that I did not have to get exact matching wattage of turn signal. This would have come in handy when I busted a turn signal on a dirt ride and had to do a long street ride home. Buddy had a 10 watt turn signal lying around, but it would not flash. I had to flash the signal manual. I purchased several relays before finding one that worked, and one that was a direct replacement. These are direct replacements for my Suzuki DR350SE, however I am sure they work for any two prong turn signal flasher relay. The two prongs are labeled “B” and “L”. The "B" I assume stands for Base Voltage or positive power from the source. The "L" for Load, this goes to the blinker. The L it the output side with the pulsed or flashing 12 volt + power. This relay plugs into the existing relay plug/connector and can be swapped out in 5 minutes. They even have the stock mounting tab, and comes with a new tab mounting rubber piece. I have been using this particular one for two seasons now, and it has worked flawlessly. Granted I have not submerged relay in water. These will also make great replacements for OEM relays that have gone belly up. The OEM Suzuki relay is over $50!!

Many older bikes use a three prong flasher relay. The 2 prong can easily be used as a substitute. The 3 prong relay requires an additional ground for one of the prongs. This ground does not actually serve the TS but is there for the function of the relay. A 2 prong flasher relay does not need a ground to properly function. In fact the wiring harness of a stock DR350 provides an extra unused ground plug/wire near the flasher relay plug, presumably to accommodate older 3 prong flasher relays.

LEDs however are the main reason most folks are interested in no load flashers. LED turn signals seem to be the most popular type of replacements. Not only do the LED last forever, they are resistant to shock. Other than snapping one off you never have to replace them. Another thing that makes LEDs popular is that they require very little energy to run. People with limited electrical power output chose to use LED turn signals to free up energy. I personally do not think the energy saving makes a difference since turn signals are used so intermittently. However I guess if you are a city rider or do not like your headlights dimming at stop lights this is just cause. Running LED turn singles will require the use of a no load flasher relay.

So you installed LED turn signals, swapped out a no load flasher, hit the switch, and the turn signals do not come on. The first thing to do is reverse the leads to the turn signals. LED are directional and require the + and – to go the right leads. OK you have this set up, turn on the flashers and all four lights come on. This is where the diode kit comes into play. Most likely your bike has a dash board indicator that flashes and informs you the turn signals are on. This is your problem. Pull the bulb and see if everything flashes correctly. If you can live with no indicator your problems are fixed: GO RIDE!! If this isn’t ok you need to install diodes.

Diodes
The circuit set up for the in dash turn signal indicator is pretty ingenious. The incandescent turn signal bulb flows electricity in both directions. When you flip on the right side signal, electricity flows through the indicator bulb from the right and goes to the non-flashing left turn signals using the signal as the ground. When you flash the left side it does the opposite. Diodes are one way valves for electricity. LED stand for light emitting diodes. When you wired in the LED turn signals you messed up the flip flop ability of the indicator system. This combined with the low power requirements of the LEDs themselves cause all kinds of issues. I do not claim to know the details of what is going on, just the basic workings and more importantly the solution.

The solution is to wire in two small diodes into the wires that feed the in-dash turn signal indicators. The two leads originally going to the indicator bulb will each now have a small diode on it, they will be merged and feed one prong of the indicator bulb, the other lead from the bulb will go to ground. You can either ground to the frame (making sure it is a good ground not a painted surface) or you can connect it to the multiply grounding wires that already exist in your instrument cluster. For the DR I used the B/W wire off the Hi beam indicator.

This kit comes with two diodes soldered to wire leads merged two to one (so you don’t get confused the direction) and heat shrink wrapped. The exposed ends are already pre dabbed in solder and ready to wire up. An extra length of wire is also provided for the ground side.

Diodes are easily available at Radio Shack for pretty cheap if you want to do it yourself. I originally was not planning to offer a diode kit, but figured one would be pissed if they bought a no load relay and still couldn’t get their turn signal system working. An alternative solution to the dash indicator problem is to use two LEDs in place of the stock incandescent bulb. Since LEDs are in fact diodes they can provide the one-way function needed. You need two LEDs to serve both right and left sides. I personally have never done this method as physically mounting the two LEDs into the small indicator bulb socket can pose a problem.


So why not just wire in resistors to the LED turn signals? I thought this would have been a good solution and many do. However I don’t think it is the best solution for LED turns signals, for the following reasons (in order of significance to me):
-Wrong resistance. The kits often provide the wrong resistance either blinking too fast or slow or not blinking at all, thus requiring a no load flasher anyways.
-Cost unless you really know your electronics the resistance kits is a more costly solution. I do not know if they cure the dash indicator problem.
- More stuff/heavier. I wouldn’t want to wire in a larger resistor into ALL FOUR signals. The ones I have seen are about 2 inches long each!
-Heat and energy. If you are using LEDs to free up some watts, you do not get any saving using resistors. Seems silly to wire in four items whose sole purpose is to get hot. And they get hot. Resistors are very small and light but since they get so hot they are packaged in little aluminum tubes with cooling fins on them.

The dimensions of the no load relay is approximately 1.25x1x1.5”. This is the box itself without the little mounting tab. The electronics themselves are even smaller. If you wanted to you could open up the case and mount just the guts somewhere. The no load relay weighs a mere ounce. The stock Suzuki relay is about 7/8x1.25x1.5” and weighs 1.25 ounces.

Beeper Relays
During my testing (really just buying a bunch of relays and seeing which worked) phase, I came across a version of this relay that beeped. I did not know that it has this feature. After installing the relay I turn on the turn signal and to my surprise I was greeted with a loud beeping. I immediately opened up the case and cut the wires to the beeper. In hindsight, this could be a nice feature. The sole purpose of turn signals is to alert others. Why not add another sense, hearing, to this process. A second added bonus to this feature is as an indicator. There will be no forgetting to turn off your turn signals. Even with a dash indicator, I often forget to turn off my turn signals after a intersection.

One caveat of the beeper relays is that they do not flash the TSs completely on and off. By this I mean that during the "on" pulse of the TS, the LED lights come on at full power. However when the TS are in the "off" period of the flash, the LED lights will still glow dimly. This is due to the fact that the beeper draws some current to operate. This current is bleed off during the off pulse of the TS flash and causes the LEDs to glow. This does not happen if you use the beeper relay in conjunction with stock incandescent TS.

Here is a picture of the guts of a beeper relay. If you have bought one of these and the beeping is too annoying, or dislike its "soft flash", one can easily silence the unit, by cutting the red and black wires that lead to the actual beeper. Cutting out the beeper will make it flash normal as well. I would recommend cutting out the entire length of the two wires so that they do not bounce around and short out the circuit board. If there is a chance that you might want to reconnect the beeper, make sure the cut ends of the wires are insulated and secure.

MrPulldown screwed with this post 04-06-2015 at 02:22 PM
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Old 03-30-2015, 03:30 PM   #3
MrPulldown OP
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Suzuki Bikes

DR350
This exploration into LED turn signals is a result of owning, riding, and wrenching on my DR350SE. This bike seems to be a general presentation of the AVERAGE bike, and its turn signal system is generic and similar to most out there.

The most common turn signal need is to replace the two rear TSs as they are easily damaged. This is the most simple. One needs:
-1 pair LED turn signals
-1 flasher relay

Due to the fact that the front TS are stock incandescent diodes are not needed. The relay is plug and play and the TS wire in easily. I would remove the broken rear TS. Swap out the Relay, see if the fronts flash. Then wire in the rear TS one at a time. The yellow wire of the TS is "+", the black wire is "-". One the harness (bike) side. The black and white wire is "-". The light green wire is "+" for the right side and the all Black wire is "+" for the Left side. Easy Peezy.

If you want to replace all four TSs, then you will have to add didoes or remove the bulb for the dash (instrument cluster) indicator. You will need:
-2 pairs of LED turn signals
-1 flasher relay
-1 diode kit
The diodes are not plug and play and will require some wiring. It is up to you on how to wire in the diodes. I prefer the solder and heat shrink wrap. Others like to cut and crimp. Below is the diagram for wiring in diodes.



Several other bikes are set up identically to the DR350S and SE these include:
-All Honda DS bikes
-DR250, DR200
-KLRs
Confirm to see if your TS relay looks like one of these



DR650
The DR650's turn signal circuitry is set up almost identically to the DR350. The only difference is that other than the first couple of years (they use the standard 2 prong), they uses a shrouded relay at accepts a "Hitachi Connector". They are still a 2 pin relay. But look like this.



Most simple clip the connector and wire up spade terminals and slide them over the relays I sell. The two wires (bike side) are Blue and Orange. The orange wire goes to the "B" pin on the relay and the blue or light blue goes to the "L" pin.

I am in the process of building a connector that looks like this so that it is a plug and play ordeal.


On thing that I noticed is that there are two types of Hitachi connector used depending on year. Late model DR650s use a 2 pin connector. Early models (like the one pictured above) use a 3 pin connector with only 2 of the pins hooked up.

Many other motorcyces use this type of relay including
-All KTM dual sports

DRZ400 and all newer Suzuki including V-storms and GSXR

These newer bikes have a different generation of Flasher relay. They are still thermal mechanical units, however they will still work with lower wattage LED type turn signals. With one pair of the LED TSs the flasher will flash fast. But for most it is still at an acceptable rate. When all four TSs are LED they flash at a hyper rate that is not acceptable by most.

These bikes DO NOT NEED DIODES!!

In order to fix this hyper flash one has 2 options. The first is to replace the 7 pin flasher relay with a LED version. This is an easy 1 minute plug and play job. $18.



The new style 7 pin relay combines the TS flasher relay and the side stand safety relay. Instead of replacing the entire 7 pin relay one can just cut the 2 TS related wires and plug them into a standard 2 pin flasher relay. See diagram below.


MrPulldown screwed with this post 03-30-2015 at 03:39 PM
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Old 04-02-2015, 02:41 PM   #4
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The DRZ400 and the DL650 (V-storm) are both bikes that do not need diodes in order to make a LED turn signals (all four corners) work. Why is this? Well let us dive into their wiring diagrams.

In the case of a DRZ400 the stock instrument cluster turn signal indicator already has diodes wired into it. The stock configuration for the DRZ is the same as the resulting modification using the diode kit.


What is interesting is that the DL650 using a different method with the same results. Instead of a single indicator bulb which serves both left and right sides. The DL650 uses 2 separate indicator bulbs. Without the need to "flip=flop" the flow of electricity through a single indicator bulb the need for diodes is eliminated.
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Old 04-15-2015, 01:29 PM   #5
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I have had a couple of people ask if it is possible to use these turn signals and flasher relays when adding turn signals to their dirt bikes. ABSOLUTELY. The only issue is that most dirt bikes output 12v AC, where this system needs 12V DC.

Since most other street legal components need a DC voltage output the first step would be to convert the AC pulse to DC. This is accomplished by adding a regulator rectifier to the stator/magneto output. Sorry I have no more details on this process as I have never had to do it myself, but is common enough that it should be easy to figure out.

Another method of generating a DC 12 volt charge is to simply use a small motorcycle battery. If used for LED turn signals alone a motorcycle battery would be able to power the signals for a long time without recharging.

Once DC voltage is accomplished you will need a turn signal switch. The ideal switch is a universal handlebar mounted one. These are basically a fancy 3 position (on/off/on) double pole double throw switch. I guess a toggle switch can work but not as convenient in mounting location.

Wiring. I tried to draw out a wiring diagram but wow was it ugly. I then tried to look on up on line, but most were overly complicated. So I figured I would just describe it in words.

The circuit starts with the +12v in. This is connected to the "B" prong of the flasher relay. The "L" prong is connected to the "in" line of the switch. The left side output from the switch should be connected to the yellow wire of both the front and back of the turn signal. The black wires should run to ground. Same for the Right side. The ground points can be all tied together and run back to the battery ground.

And there you have it.
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Old 04-15-2015, 02:10 PM   #6
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Do you also have the LED turn signals for those of us that have the "always on running lights" 3 wire turn signals on the front along with the normal two wire rear turn signals. I also have two turn signal indicator bulbs on my dash so I probably wouldn't need the diode modification. Do you have any pictures comparing the brightness of these to the stock incandescent turn signals?
Thanks, Tony
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Old 04-15-2015, 04:56 PM   #7
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Never dealt with a 3 wire always one turn signal. Assume it is similar to a 3 wire tail/brake light with a dual filament bulb. One wires supplies a steady 12v to one of the filaments acting as a running light. A 2nd wire that gives pulsed 12v for the TS, and the common ground. I wonder what would happen if you connect the 2 positive wires to the single + input wire to the LED TS. I am sure that it will light up. Question is would it flash when the TS is activated. Also pretty sure you can connect just TS wire and ditch the running light feature.

I do not have a comparison with a stock incandescent bub. In fact I do not even own a stock TS anymore. The best I can offer you is a comparison of the LED TS to a 23 watt incandescent TS. However the 23 watt TS uses mini bayonet bulbs and not the big 1156 (?) bulbs.
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Old 04-16-2015, 06:32 AM   #8
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Hello and thanks for the reply. You're right on the comparison to a 3 wire brake/taillight example, and yes it also uses a 1157 bulb. Yea, I'd imagine that it'd work just fine not connecting the 3rd running light wire if I wanted to do that.
Again thanks for your reply, Tony
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Old 04-16-2015, 11:08 AM   #9
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I gave this some more thought and I do not think that hooking up both wires to the LED TS + will work. But hooking up just the TS wire to the LED will make it function like a regular TS.

You can also keep the front stock TS and get a LED TS for the rear. This is how I have had it on my bike. The rears get broken easily but the fronts are tucked away safely.

There really is no advantage in going LED IMO. The only reason to do so is cause you broke one and need to replace it, and finding a suitable incandescent replacement is near impossible. The small size, flex mount, and long lasting bulbs is the most beneficial reason to go to these TS.

Cheers.
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Old 04-16-2015, 03:49 PM   #10
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relay and sigs

got the led signals and vstrom relay, very pleased with the operation and brightness level/ quality so far. Thanks
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