ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Battle scooters
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 02-04-2011, 04:11 PM   #106
approachbears
250cc is 50cc too many
 
Joined: Sep 2006
Location: Nuevo Mexico
Oddometer: 917
Quote:
Originally Posted by btcn View Post
I'm not sure about that. Yes, in America and almost EVERY country it does have the CV carb, BUT I do believe it was injected in Europe for a certain period of time.
The Ruckus/Zoomer is carb'd in the US and Canada. North America is actually the odd man out here. The other big markets--Europe and Japan--got fuel injected versions years ago. The US version is also still 2 valve while the Euro spec models have long been 4 valve. The stats and spec are easy enough to find online, literally the first hits on Google.
approachbears is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2011, 04:22 PM   #107
approachbears
250cc is 50cc too many
 
Joined: Sep 2006
Location: Nuevo Mexico
Oddometer: 917
Quote:
Originally Posted by btcn View Post
...But on a simple little 49 cc scooter like the Ruckus, why go to all the trouble of Fuel Injection when a simple CV carburetor will do the job just fine? All EFi will give you there is better emissions, but thats about it on a scoot like this. Maybe slightly better acceleration as well. But why add more parts to fail? Most Ruckus's are very reliable scooters and start up just fine. The ONLY real good thing about injection on a 49 cc bike is altitude change.

But this is my opinion. And sorry for jacking this thread, its just a reply. But back to the point lets come up with more scooters we dream of seeing created.
I'm happy enough with my Ruckus, but I still rue Honda's forsaking fuel injection for it in the US. The things you identify as slight differences are big to me and other lil' scoot riders because their impact is magnified when operating at such small scales. Slight acceleration means little when you've got horsepower and torque to burn, but it means a lot when you're milking everything out of 49.5cc that's possible.

Its not like fuel injection is some new fangled mystery. It works great on Yamaha's similarly priced C3. Honda built the US Ruckus very high tech for the 50cc class and then stuck it with an old fashioned carb.
approachbears is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2011, 05:05 PM   #108
btcn
Beastly Adventurer
 
btcn's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2010
Location: Morgan Hill CA
Oddometer: 2,880
Quote:
Originally Posted by approachbears View Post
I'm happy enough with my Ruckus, but I still rue Honda's forsaking fuel injection for it in the US. The things you identify as slight differences are big to me and other lil' scoot riders because their impact is magnified when operating at such small scales. Slight acceleration means little when you've got horsepower and torque to burn, but it means a lot when you're milking everything out of 49.5cc that's possible.

Its not like fuel injection is some new fangled mystery. It works great on Yamaha's similarly priced C3. Honda built the US Ruckus very high tech for the 50cc class and then stuck it with an old fashioned carb.

I can see what you mean. Damn, they got 4 valve heads too? What the HELL does Honda have against North America?

Well, actually maybe its GOOD that we DON'T have Fuel Injection and 4 valves as standard on the Ruckus. If the Ruckus is already significantly overpriced at $2,500 MSRP+Tax+everything else, imagine the price with all that! $3,400+ wouldn't be much of a surprise to me. BUT for the price of the Ruckus here, we SHOULD get all the stuff they have!

I hear ya on the little performance gains being a lot. For example a 50 MPH top speed and 60 MPH top speed doesn't seem like a huge difference, but its the difference between keeping up with traffic on backroads [CRUISING at 50 MPH vs. Cruising at 40 MPH] and getting tailgated and passed. And same with acceleration.
btcn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2011, 09:59 PM   #109
enc0re
Adventurer
 
Joined: Jun 2010
Oddometer: 16
I have a Ruckus 50cc and will be getting rid of it because it's just too slow to ride safely. Too bad. It's ideal for me otherwise.

So yeah, a ruckus with 150-400cc is exactly what I'd like to see made.
enc0re is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2011, 09:27 AM   #110
techguy
Scooter Trash
 
techguy's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2008
Location: Sacramento, CA
Oddometer: 845
What Honda has against the North American market is that we, as a whole, do not buy very many scooters. They have sold 60,000,000 (60 million) Cubs. How many do you see on the roads of America? There were about 24,000 scooters sold last year. They sell nearly that many a MONTH in Italy.
techguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2011, 09:46 AM   #111
TheReaper!
Studly Adventurer
 
TheReaper!'s Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: S.E. Michigan
Oddometer: 648
Quote:
Originally Posted by enc0re View Post
I have a Ruckus 50cc and will be getting rid of it because it's just too slow to ride safely. Too bad. It's ideal for me otherwise.

So yeah, a ruckus with 150-400cc is exactly what I'd like to see made.
So it sounds like the Big Ruckus might be ideal for you ?


TheReaper!
TheReaper! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2011, 01:52 PM   #112
ColinDoyle
Studly Adventurer
 
ColinDoyle's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2008
Location: Collegeville, Minnesota
Oddometer: 723
Quote:
Originally Posted by YamaGeek View Post
Thats the only thing that I dread about owning a newer FI bike, the complexity of the fuel delivery system.
There's hardly anything to it: the pump fills a series of lines and hoses with fuel, the pressure regulator is a variable orifice which controls the pressure of the fuel contained within those components by metering it back into the tank, and the injector is an electronically-triggered leak in the system. Everything else - the TPS, the air charge temp sensor, coolant temp sensor, RPM signal, MAP sensor, etc - are input devices for the ECU so that it can determine when and for how long it should leave the injector(s) open.

Really, it's far less daunting than a carburetor.
__________________
Colin Doyle
2004 BMW R1150R Rockster | 2008 Honda Ruckus
ColinDoyle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2011, 01:54 PM   #113
enc0re
Adventurer
 
Joined: Jun 2010
Oddometer: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheReaper! View Post
So it sounds like the Big Ruckus might be ideal for you ?
Maybe. I don't like the Big Ruckus nearly as much. What appeals to me about the Ruckus 50 is that the frame is so open. You can hang, tie, and string crazy amounts of stuff on a very small bike.

I'll probably end up with a Burgman 400 over a Big Ruckus. But the BR is 'on the list.'

Plus, I hear the BR isn't so good on the highway. At some point, I'll want to do Route 66 on a scooter. So I'm keeping that in mind in shopping for my next scoot.
enc0re is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2011, 12:28 AM   #114
btcn
Beastly Adventurer
 
btcn's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2010
Location: Morgan Hill CA
Oddometer: 2,880
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColinDoyle View Post
There's hardly anything to it: the pump fills a series of lines and hoses with fuel, the pressure regulator is a variable orifice which controls the pressure of the fuel contained within those components by metering it back into the tank, and the injector is an electronically-triggered leak in the system. Everything else - the TPS, the air charge temp sensor, coolant temp sensor, RPM signal, MAP sensor, etc - are input devices for the ECU so that it can determine when and for how long it should leave the injector(s) open.

Really, it's far less daunting than a carburetor.

Well, true. But in my opinion single carbs are simpler.

For those that don't get fuel injection well I'll try and explain it VERY simply and briefly.

So you control a butterfly valve just like in a CV carb. Open it, and more air rushes into the throttle bodies [big things that look somewhat like a carb with a butterfly valve and sensors inside] and the Manifold absolute pressure sensor and/or MAF [Mass air flow sensor] along with throttle position sensors sence this. They tell the ECM [AKA ECU Engine Control Unit/Modual=The Computer] this. It then looks up tables and tells the injector[s] exactly the precise amount of fuel to inject into the cylinder during the intake stroke. On a Multi Port setup, the injectors are down aimed right at the intake valve. When the Injector opens, Pressurized fuel comes from the fuel rail and sprays into the motor. Your fuel pump pressurized this fuel.

I hope this can better explain how they work. EFI is not all THAT complicated, although there is more wiring and technology to it. But both work very well, IMHO its all about your preference. But I gotta tell ya, EFI it a very reliable and good method.

Just wanted to get that clear. Sorry about the thread jack, but maybe it will effect your thinking about having a carb or injection. Now lets get back to what we want to see made. We do want a 150 Ruckus bad, but your right, simply not enough sales in America, and the 50 does fine in many other countries.
btcn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2011, 03:24 AM   #115
vortexau
Outside the Pod-bay
 
vortexau's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: Just off the Warrego, S.E. Queensland
Oddometer: 1,667
I'm still waiting for some serious electric-powered maxi to be added to the market, and . . . to stay --- improving as its subtly upgraded by advances to the technology.

http://www.themotorreport.com.au/448...ctric-vehicles



Quote:
Oct 21, 2009

INSPIRED BY the Honda Cub 50cc motorcycle developed in 1958 and still in production today, the all-electric Cub is Honda's vision for future urban mobility.

Thanks to the lack of conventional engine components, the all-electric cub is slimmer than its iconic petrol counterpart.

Honda is aiming to have an electric motorcycle on the market by the end of 2010, although it has not confirmed whether it will be the electric Cub, or a larger sports/performance model.
Hello - hello? This is not some Flying Car or Personal Flying Belt. Its just a 21st Century Electric-powered Stepthrough.

Unlike those other Future Concepts; its far more do-able.

So, where is that Electric Two-wheeler Mr Honda?

Should WE turn instead to China for our Electric Fix?
http://www.made-in-china.com/product...r_Scooter.html



Quote:
Product Description 5000 Watts EEC EPA Approved Electric Motor Scooter Equipped with 40Ah Lithium Battery
WZJS5004EEC/EPA
Key Specifications:
1. User age: > 16
2. Wheel number: 2
3. Overall Dimensions: 21607801100mm
4. Wheelbase: 1610mm
5. Motor Power: 5000 Watts
6. Battery: 72V/40Ah LFP/LCP Li-ion battery
7. Charger Input Voltage: 110V-230V
8. Charging time: ≥5/h
9. Max speed: 95km/h, 59miles/h
10. Standard Speed (EU): 95km/h, 59miles/h
11. Max range: 1105km
12. Brake: front: Disk; rear: Disk
13. Brake control: hand brakes
14. Power transmission: Chain drive
15. Load Capacity: >150kgs/330lbs
Well, that's a start. Now aim for
● Higher speed.
● Higher range.
● Larger wheels, etc.
__________________
'08 Suzuki AN650A Burgman (and trailer)
vortexau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2011, 10:54 AM   #116
Cat0020
El cheapo
 
Cat0020's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2002
Location: NW of Philly, Hoboken, Brooklyn, Jamaica NY.
Oddometer: 5,494
From the first page of this thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat0020 View Post
Full electric, wall socket plug-in scoot with 200 mile range on single charge, 30 minute re-charge time, capable of 90 mph cruise at ease, under 300lb., with 60 liter underseat storage, under $5000.
__________________
Mankind is doomed & Physics do not lie
Chances favor the prepared mind.
Cat0020 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2011, 08:21 PM   #117
Andyhorror
Adventurer
 
Andyhorror's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2010
Location: Prison City MI
Oddometer: 66
http://www.currentmotor.com/
Andyhorror is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2011, 05:35 AM   #118
hugemoth
Beastly Adventurer
 
hugemoth's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Location: In the TARDIS
Oddometer: 2,761
I'd like to see a giant version of a Honda Super Cub. 400cc single cylinder horizontal engine, manual transmission, enclosed chain drive, leg shields, 19 inch wheels, etc..
hugemoth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2011, 06:29 AM   #119
MODNROD
Perpetual ponderer
 
MODNROD's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2009
Location: Midwest, West Oz
Oddometer: 2,055
Oh yeah.......!

Damn, the fun I could have on one of those. Hopefully it will have standard suspension and brakes to put the fear of god into you just by starting it up!
__________________
This Signature line is intentionally left blank.
MODNROD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2011, 06:35 AM   #120
tastroman OP
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: May 2009
Location: Collinsville Va
Oddometer: 1,601
Quote:
Originally Posted by hugemoth View Post
I'd like to see a giant version of a Honda Super Cub. 400cc single cylinder horizontal engine, manual transmission, enclosed chain drive, leg shields, 19 inch wheels, etc..


Now that's what I'm talkin about.
__________________
------------------------------------------------------
The world would be a better place if there were fewer people who felt like they needed to teach other people a lesson.
2007 Daelim S-2 250
2009 Buell Ulysses XB12XT
tastroman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 02:38 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014