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Old 04-29-2012, 09:02 AM   #1576
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Originally Posted by woodnbow View Post
My biggest gripe with HD is that right there... Sportsters used to be the standard/sport bike in the Harley line. It wouldn't take much to make them that again, a standard seat like the triumph scrambler and 13" rear shocks, move the mid controls 1.5" lower and maybe 3-4" to the rear and there you go... I'd be in heaven if they built a standard version like this on a Dyna or better yet FXR chassis.

Unfortunately the best you can do if you like the HD drivelines is to modify it yourself.. suspensions not a big trick but nobody builds a standard seat for Harley Davidsons so you build it yourself or live with what the aftermarket gives you..

I really wish Ducati would build a decent low seat forward control bike! Oh wait, THAT'S NOT WHAT THEY DO!
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Old 04-30-2012, 09:32 AM   #1577
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Originally Posted by Onederer View Post
The XR1200 was just another Harley styling exercise, because it was only competitive against another Harley.
Define "competitive".

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Harley is in the habit of putting a cover over any hard part that looks unrefined and thinking that no one will notice.
Yeah, the other manufacturers would never do that. I mean, Triumph would never cover up throttle bodies with a shiny bit designed to look like a carburetor.

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Originally Posted by windmill View Post
Sometimes it seems like they intentionally alienate riders who are not their traditional customers
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Originally Posted by blk-betty View Post
And yet.....More than one-third of new Harley-Davidson motorcycle sales in the U.S. in 2011 were to riders new to the brand, and in the EMEA region, more than two-thirds were new to the brand.
The two statements are not logically exclusive.

Harley's "target market", as I see it, is made up of people who want a certain nostalgic, relaxing quality to their riding experience. The fact that HD's marketing department has in large managed to re-defined what that really means and generate a "lifestyle" around it is a feat that many other marketing departments envy, and some are attempting do the same with some success (BMW=Adventure, Ducati=racing) while others merely rake in the bucks following the trends others have established.

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Why is that some can't understand that not every motorcycle buyer is so concerend about handling and performance?
In the pursuit of a hobby where a lack of handling and performance can make a difference between life and death, that's a silly question.

That said, I expect the handling and performance capability of any HD exceeds the rider's ability in 95% or more of cases. DAKEZ, care to comment?

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One-third of sales to those new to the brand in the US and 2/3rds outside the US, speaks volumes to "what is Harley doing".
Buying a name and/or hoping the image will rub off on them. Same as a lot of R1200GS Adventure buyers and R1 pilots with big red X's on their helmets.

It's going to be really interesting to hear about sales where DAKEZ works. They held a grand opening for Triumph sales last weekend. There are a number of classic styled Triumphs, as well as some damn nice sportbikes, naked sport bikes (which Triumph basically defined with the Speed Triple) and the Tiger 800 / XC and Explorer don't suck.
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Old 04-30-2012, 10:03 AM   #1578
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"Yeah, the other manufacturers would never do that. I mean, Triumph would never cover up throttle bodies with a shiny bit designed to look like a carburetor. "

And the sales guy at the Triumph dealership just looked at me funny when I asked him why if it was "just to make it look traditional" they made the throttle bodies look like Keihin CV carbs instead of making them look like Amals...

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Old 04-30-2012, 12:07 PM   #1579
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Originally Posted by lemieuxmc View Post
"Yeah, the other manufacturers would never do that. I mean, Triumph would never cover up throttle bodies with a shiny bit designed to look like a carburetor. "

And the sales guy at the Triumph dealership just looked at me funny when I asked him why if it was "just to make it look traditional" they made the throttle bodies look like Keihin CV carbs instead of making them look like Amals...

I'm not sure if that's really funny, or just really sad, on two levels. One, is it too much to expect that a salesperson has a fairly good understanding of the product they're selling and two, is it too much for the manufacturer to understand their own history?!
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Old 04-30-2012, 12:20 PM   #1580
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This particular sales guy didn't have any idea what I was talking about, and yes it is sad that the closest Triumph can get to re-creating the original coolness is with some cheesy graphics featuring the signature of a man who wouldn't be caught dead on the bike they sell now.

Richard Pollock can build you a real Triumph, how come Triumph doesn't seem to get it?
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Old 04-30-2012, 12:21 PM   #1581
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Doing? Doing well.

NEW YORK (AP) — Harley-Davidson's first-quarter profit jumped 44 percent, as improving economic conditions and early spring weather boosted U.S. sales of its famous motorcycles.

From: http://www.chron.com/business/articl...se-3508720.php
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Old 04-30-2012, 12:23 PM   #1582
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Originally Posted by lemieuxmc View Post
This particular sales guy didn't have any idea what I was talking about, and yes it is sad that the closest Triumph can get to re-creating the original coolness is with some cheesy graphics featuring the signature of a man who wouldn't be caught dead on the bike they sell now.

Do you really think Steve would not like the bikes?

I think you are WAY off base on this.
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Old 04-30-2012, 02:04 PM   #1583
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Thought I'd seen the stats here before but couldn't find them.

It would be interesting to learn how what percentage of HD profits are from apparel.

The local HD dealer I hate has a very large store with about 60% of their showroom space devoted to apparel and gifts.

This weekend I stopped at an HD, Triumph and Kawasaki dealer (weird I know, that's why I stopped), and they had about 40% of their floor devoted to apparel. Of that apparel 99% was HD. 0 triumph gear and one small rack of Fox gear which I assume was for the Kawi folks.

P.S. Nothing against HD selling apparel (love to see an American company do well however they can). I am just curious.

P.P.S. if you are ever in Traverse City, MI check out Classic HD. Nice folks with a nice shop there.
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Old 04-30-2012, 03:18 PM   #1584
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I will say this about HD riders, and there are a lot of them around here, they are out there in numbers, and some of them cover a lot of territory. Sure, they aren't ADV bikes for the most part, but if you do a Google you can come up with a ton of HD adventures and blogs. I suppose it's partly a function of the numbers sold--they outnumber all other bikes--but I see tons of them out on the road obviously going places. And, yes the stereotype is the poser wearing the chaps and novelty helmet, polishing the chrome between trips to the local bar, but there are just as many or more folks actually riding and not on here typing about their prowess.
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Old 04-30-2012, 04:20 PM   #1585
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thanantos View Post
Thought I'd seen the stats here before but couldn't find them.

It would be interesting to learn how what percentage of HD profits are from apparel.

The local HD dealer I hate has a very large store with about 60% of their showroom space devoted to apparel and gifts.
.
Pulled from the recent financials....... Revenue from Motorcycles during the first quarter of 2012 of $995.9 million was up 19.5 percent compared to the year-ago period. The Company shipped 64,263 motorcycles to dealers and distributors worldwide during the quarter, compared to shipments of 53,827 motorcycles in the first quarter of 2011. First-quarter 2012 shipments were higher than the Company’s shipment guidance of 58,000 to 63,000 motorcycles for the quarter.

Revenue from Motorcycle Parts and Accessories (P&A) totaled $199.1 million during the quarter, up 21.1 percent, and revenue from General Merchandise, which includes MotorClothes Apparel and Accessories, was $74.6 million, up 19.2 percent compared to the year-ago period.

For 1st quarter 2012, Apparel accounts for 5.9% of total revenue. Have no idea what percent of that is profit, regardless HD makes most their money selling bikes.

78.4% bikes sales
15.7% parts and accessories
5.9% apparel and accessories
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Old 04-30-2012, 05:23 PM   #1586
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Originally Posted by DAKEZ View Post
They are dropping the XR1200X from the line-up in the USA.
Say it ain't so!!!

RxZ (knew that such a specialty bike wouldn't last)

Oh well, I'll find one in a couple of years with about 2000 miles on it for around 1/2 - 3/4 what they were new. (One can dream.)
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Old 04-30-2012, 05:45 PM   #1587
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78.4% bikes sales
15.7% parts and accessories
5.9% apparel and accessories
Thanks Betty.

I am no retail marketing expert so I won't try to guess as to the disparity in sales floor space given to apparel, but the numbers are interesting nonetheless.
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Old 04-30-2012, 05:51 PM   #1588
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I remember reading somewhere that the average profit for the MoCo is around $3,000 per bike. So, 64,263 bikes x $3K = 192.7x Million Dollars net profit! (So long as there is some truth to what I remember reading.)

Total revenue for clothing is only 75 million or so, therefore it is mathematically impossible for clothing to make more than the bikes. Which we all knew, but I do have to defend Harley with this argument every now and then. And I don't even own a Harley.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blk-betty View Post
Pulled from the recent financials....... Revenue from Motorcycles during the first quarter of 2012 of $995.9 million was up 19.5 percent compared to the year-ago period. The Company shipped 64,263 motorcycles to dealers and distributors worldwide during the quarter, compared to shipments of 53,827 motorcycles in the first quarter of 2011. First-quarter 2012 shipments were higher than the Company’s shipment guidance of 58,000 to 63,000 motorcycles for the quarter.

Revenue from Motorcycle Parts and Accessories (P&A) totaled $199.1 million during the quarter, up 21.1 percent, and revenue from General Merchandise, which includes MotorClothes Apparel and Accessories, was $74.6 million, up 19.2 percent compared to the year-ago period.

For 1st quarter 2012, Apparel accounts for 5.9% of total revenue. Have no idea what percent of that is profit, regardless HD makes most their money selling bikes.

78.4% bikes sales
15.7% parts and accessories
5.9% apparel and accessories
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Old 04-30-2012, 06:51 PM   #1589
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Originally Posted by Thanantos View Post
Thanks Betty.

I am no retail marketing expert so I won't try to guess as to the disparity in sales floor space given to apparel, but the numbers are interesting nonetheless.
Yep, ex-wife use to work in the sales and marketing of licensed merchandise in the late 90's early '00s, what she referred to as trinkets and trash. She claimed at that time HD was somewhere in the top 5 for worldwide licensed product sales... in the same league as Coke, Ford, and Chevrolet.
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Old 04-30-2012, 07:16 PM   #1590
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Originally Posted by blk-betty View Post
Yep, ex-wife use to work in the sales and marketing of licensed merchandise in the late 90's early '00s, what she referred to as trinkets and trash. She claimed at that time HD was somewhere in the top 5 for worldwide licensed product sales... in the same league as Coke, Ford, and Chevrolet.
Just based on what I see around here (t-shirts, stickers, jackets, helmets, vests, patches, etc) I wouldn't argue with that.
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