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Old 02-01-2011, 12:18 PM   #166
Trailrider200
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poking fun at harley

http://www.goingfaster.com/angst/main.htm
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Old 02-01-2011, 12:37 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by ph0rk View Post
Late to the party, but:
Well over half the US population live in tight, urban areas. Where are their small, maneuverable bikes?
A couple of months ago, around rush hour, I'm walking down Clark Street just west of Lincoln Park in Chicago and three guys go by on big sports bikes. They were really working the handlebars to stay upright at the slow speed traffic allowed. Some places were meant for Vespas.
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Old 02-01-2011, 01:06 PM   #168
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Originally Posted by Meriden View Post
A couple of months ago, around rush hour, I'm walking down Clark Street just west of Lincoln Park in Chicago and three guys go by on big sports bikes. They were really working the handlebars to stay upright at the slow speed traffic allowed. Some places were meant for Vespas.
that's due to the rake and trail used so the big bikes are more stable at hwy speeds. My valkyrie is sometimes a handful at slow speeds.
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Old 02-01-2011, 02:00 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by ph0rk View Post
Well over half the US population live in tight, urban areas. Where are their small, maneuverable bikes?
The same place as a small diesel commuter car or pickup truck. Google 'chicken tax' and then ask yourself why the big three haven't made a small pickup like the subaru brat... EVER.
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Old 02-01-2011, 02:10 PM   #170
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Originally Posted by ph0rk View Post
Late to the party, but:

Where is the new ford focus of American motorcycling, hm?
Yamaha has the FZ6R (for the Ford Focus reference)

...And the V-Star 650 (custom/classic) Kawasaki has the Vulcan 900 (custom/classic) Honda has the Shadow line and Suzuki the Boulevard line.

Harley has missed out on a very large part of the Market by not developing a few smaller, lighter bikes for beginning riders.

It is sad really. I wish them well.
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Old 02-01-2011, 03:55 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by RC51950ADVAlpina'tac View Post
For example: Buell ##may## have been clearing $50 Million USD of net profit for H-D in a calendar year.

However, when corporations shutter one subsidiary of their business (Buell) the IRS has these loopholes called "charges" and "expenses" which are incurred in said closing(s). So, even though Buell was hypothetically making a net profit of $50 Million USD per year, H-D was able to write off incurred "expenses" of say $300 Million, against the profits of the H-D parent Corp.. And actually, if done correctly, those $300 Million in expenses can be written off in annual chunks: a $60 Million expense write off in each of the next 5 years, for instance.

DO you get it?

No. It never made sense to me to spend $1 in order to get $0.45 back.
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Old 02-01-2011, 04:40 PM   #172
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Originally Posted by DAKEZ View Post
Yamaha has the FZ6R (for the Ford Focus reference)

...And the V-Star 650 (custom/classic) Kawasaki has the Vulcan 900 (custom/classic) Honda has the Shadow line and Suzuki the Boulevard line.

Harley has missed out on a very large part of the Market by not developing a few smaller, lighter bikes for beginning riders.

It is sad really. I wish them well.
two smaller bikes
sportster 883 and Buell Blast
only problem http://www.goingfaster.com/angst/noharley2.html
and low HP old tech engine compared to competition

Trailrider200 screwed with this post 02-01-2011 at 04:55 PM
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Old 02-01-2011, 04:43 PM   #173
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Originally Posted by haithabu View Post
No. It never made sense to me to spend $1 in order to get $0.45 back.
Well, A LOT of our corporate tax laws do not make sense for you and me, but only for the Corporations, and the accountants who see the bottom line on paper.
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Old 02-01-2011, 04:51 PM   #174
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Originally Posted by FotoTEX View Post
I buy bikes based on performance not based on loud pipes.
Motorcycles owned currently
2001 BMW K1200RS

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Old 02-01-2011, 05:16 PM   #175
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Originally Posted by nachtflug View Post
Motorcycles owned currently
2001 BMW K1200RS

Still it outperforms any Harley to roll off the showroom floor.

I think some incremental tweaking and redesign phased in over ten years or so and Harley could have some great bikes without having alienated their customers. I wish they would. That they have made many improvements over the last 12 years.
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Old 02-01-2011, 07:07 PM   #176
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Sorry, I've ridden them. You're using a lot of words to say "heavy, slow, and poor-handling." Then you're trying to tell us those are qualities instead of flaws. It's silly.

I agree 100% with what others are saying. Harleys aren't THAT slow, yes they aren't wicked fast, but 110 MPH is PLENTY for me almost all the time. They don't accelerate particularly fast, maybe even a little slow, but they go down the highway at 80 MPH JUST fine, cruise real nice, and even have some passing power.


They ARE NOT sports bikes. I have no idea why you would compare them to sports bikes or sport touring bikes! They ARE NOT even close. Harleys are simply cruisers and tourers, nothing less, nothing more. Simple as that.

You go find me a cruiser that will out handle a Harley BIG TIME in the same cc class. A Yamaha Road Star won't handle much better, nor will other big Japanese V twin cruisers. Thats what they are.

They were not designed with good handling or performance in mind. It is about that Harley feel, nice smooth cruising, cool looks and sound, and long distance highway rides.

You don't have to like Harleys or think anything more of them, and I respect your opinion. But I am just saying I feel they are nice cruisers, and do what they were designed to do well. They DON'T do what they WEREN'T designed to do well.
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Old 02-01-2011, 07:14 PM   #177
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They were not designed with good handling or performance in mind. It is about that Harley feel, nice smooth cruising, cool looks and sound, and long distance highway rides.
Seems to me that you are talking about a Road King. But if you actually look at most of the line, "long distance highway rides" is not what comes to mind.
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Old 02-01-2011, 07:42 PM   #178
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what harley is doing

I am not an investor in Harley, wish I had been, but I do wish them well. I am very high on Harley's target market list.

I do resent the attitude of their dealers I have strayed into and many of their riders. I know what a motorcycle is and how to use it to have fun. The dealers resemble outlet store retailers, low wage uneducated selling blisterpak stuff. Lose the attitude, you are a local, lets relax.

Harley is in a shrinking box. They lost it technologically in the 1970s, the Norton 750 beat them in the superbike market before the Honda 750 reduced both to the nostalgia angle. Somehow that angle took root and they are still there. Their way forward to increase sales is by selling the American Nostalgia to non-Americans at top dollar. And hoping for a return to glory days of liar loans in USA.

All the people riding many K a year, comfortably on the highway, that's really good. No, really. Anyone who likes their bike, I vote for you.

Low rpms are great, my Audi cruises at 2,000 rpm at 60. I may join you, at some point. It might be on a Harley, to tell the truth.

In the meantime I am cycling through a variety of wonderful bikes, one or two new used bikes a year for cheap, all of which Harley cannot touch. Too many bikes, not enough time.
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Old 02-01-2011, 07:49 PM   #179
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Diesel

Give me one reason why it does not make sense for Harley to be selling a Diesel bike, all things considered.

I drove next to a Dodge dually pickup today on the commute, twin chrome stacks coming up from front of bed, low deep serious rumble from the ?Cummins? Sounded like a heavy duty truck engine, at low rpms on the highway. Truly awesome setup.

Well, the Dodge was optimized to pull a trailer, and I think the Diesel Harley should be optimized for no trailer. But that's not an objection.
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Old 02-01-2011, 09:42 PM   #180
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One good reason: The most bonified guarantee for money in that market is a military contract, and HDT has that contract wrapped up with their diesel bikes.






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Give me one reason why it does not make sense for Harley to be selling a Diesel bike, all things considered.

I drove next to a Dodge dually pickup today on the commute, twin chrome stacks coming up from front of bed, low deep serious rumble from the ?Cummins? Sounded like a heavy duty truck engine, at low rpms on the highway. Truly awesome setup.

Well, the Dodge was optimized to pull a trailer, and I think the Diesel Harley should be optimized for no trailer. But that's not an objection.
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