What is Harley doing?

[Uncle Ernie]

Originally Posted by ObiJohn

Do you guys know how sought-after Harleys are in much of the rest of the world? Not by people looking for transportation, but by people looking for a status symbol (the same reason they sell to the older demographic here in the USA). Walk up to a nightclub in Moscow, or Shanghai, and you will see a few highly-blinged Harleys... with people surrounding them and staring in fascination.

As the rest of the world grows an affluent upper middle class, Harleys will start to sell very well. Just because it's fashionable to deride America doesn't mean the fascination with Hollywood, Harleys, bourbon, and blue jeans is over.

Really, they don't hate us as much as they envy us... and want to BE us. As much as they decry things like MTV and movies, they still can't turn away, they have to watch, and their youth imitates the lifestyle (ever see Indian gangsta rap? or boy bands? or Chinese teen girl singers? too funny!). The developing world is losing a lot of its uniqueness and specific cultures as the increasing spread of the Internet is shrinking the world and making us all live in a virtual Los Angeles wasteland. That's what drives the reactionaries, the terrorists, the fundamentalists nuts. They have lost the culture war... who wouldn't want to live in a world of fun and dancing and hot bodies and easy sex?

What's your address? I'm stuffing a change of clothes in a bag right now. !

[Ultra]

Originally Posted by Kamloopsrider

So a counterbalanced engine is the same as one that isn't?

Do you even know what a counterbalancer is? It's just a weight added to a moving part of an engine, normally the crank.

So in your eyes, adding a weight makes it a completely different engine?? By that standard, different valve timing would also make it a different engine.

Originally Posted by Kamloopsrider

The point being made was that they used the same engine and transmission. Not that they weren't the same style of bike.

They do use the same engine and transmission. The only reason the part numbers are different is because of the different mounting points on the different frames.

[Grreatdog]

Originally Posted by Ultra

Do you even know what a counterbalancer is? It's just a weight added to a moving part of an engine, normally the crank.

So in your eyes, adding a weight makes it a completely different engine?? By that standard, different valve timing would also make it a different engine.



They do use the same engine and transmission. The only reason the part numbers are different is because of the different mounting points on the different frames.

Actually bike engines usually run a separate counter balancer shaft that is either gear of chain driven. Which I believe is also true for H-D 96B engines. IIRC it runs the counter balancer shaft off the cam chain. So it has a different bottom end than the non counter balanced engine.

[easyrider88]

[QUOTE=Kamloopsrider;15122629]

Originally Posted by Ultra

The Dyna engines and Touring engines are rubber mounted while the Softail engines are rigid mounted with a counter balancer. That doesn't make them different engines, they are still the same engine.

So a counterbalanced engine is the same as one that isn't?


Of course they have different frames, but that doesn't make them different types of bikes. They are still all cruisers.

The point being made was that they used the same engine and transmission. Not that they weren't the same style of bike.

rider,ive owned 3 HDs.currently harleyless by choice.my only real complaint about their touring engine is that its AIR COOLED.the only touring bike not running water in their engine.and old technology.like about 70s years ago.but tweeked a bit since then.i asked a HD salesman about putting their VROD engine in a touring bike.he said the radiator wouldnt fit.thats actually why the VROD has so much rake.so the radiator fits.kinda funny in a way.i think HD could find a way to put its VROD engine in a road king chassis.it just doesnt give a fuck.

[waveydavey]

Originally Posted by Chromer

All I see are chrome pirate sleds.
Don't sweat it, I don't get the purpose of all the metric copies either.

Now I would like one of those older HD scooters, but mostly just for shits and giggles and to tweak the lifestylers.

Everyone has their own reasons for riding motorcycles, and now we have a little insight as to what yours are. Enjoy your ride.

[Meriden]

After the neighbor and I get finished with the Indian 741 we're currently restoring, a KH will likely be next. It's kind of cool because there was a KH in my family when I was a tiny tyke. After the KH a 48 WR. Frankly none of these bikes are anything but investments and possible show pieces. They are hard to ride and just not powerful enough to be safe in today's traffic. The only HD I've ever wanted was a Baja 100 and that was when I was 12.

As for HD in India, these guys have a track record of throwing money into something and then bailing out. I'm not sure I would trust them to do the things they need to do to make it successful.

[Ultra]

Originally Posted by Grreatdog

Actually bike engines usually run a separate counter balancer shaft that is either gear of chain driven. Which I believe is also true for H-D 96B engines. IIRC it runs the counter balancer shaft off the cam chain. So it has a different bottom end than the non counter balanced engine.

The 96B uses a modified block to incorporate twin chain-driven counterbalancers.

But the Twin Cam 96B is just a variant of the Twin Cam 96A, not a different engine. The 96ci Twin Cam engine isn't even a different engine than 103ci Twin Cam, or 110ci Twin Cam as far as Harley Davidson is concerned.

Harley has very distinct nomenclature for their engines and to claim the 96A is a different engine than the 96B shows a severe ignorance about Harley Davidson engines.

These are different Harley Engines:

Flat Head
Knuckle Head
Pan Head
Shovel Head
Iron Head
Evolution
Twin Cam
Revolution

Harley currently uses 3 engines in their bikes, the Evo for Sportsters, Revo for V-Rods, and TC for Dyna, Softail and Touring. Variants feature things like different displacement and balancing, but there's still just the 3 engines.

[dwoodward]

Originally Posted by Tripped1

The bikes share literally nothing.

Originally Posted by Tripped1

You are correct that they are the same motors,

You are aware of the definition of the word "literally", yes?

[Tripped1]

Originally Posted by dwoodward

You are aware of the definition of the word "literally", yes?

Tear down a Sportster and a Road King and start swapping parts and tell me how far you get.

I'll wait.

[DAKEZ]

Originally Posted by Tripped1

Tear down a Sportster and a Road King and start swapping parts and tell me how far you get.

I'll wait.

Whoa there Hoss. If your read back this was a comparison of engines in the Solftail, Road King and Touring bikes.

Nobody has said the Sportster engine is the same. A Sporty has an EVO based engine with a built on tranny.

[eatpasta]

Originally Posted by Tripped1

The 1125 out handles, out brakes, makes similar power...oh yeah, and is a solid 100lbs lighter that the comparison.

If you never tried it, the 1125 is a legitimate big-league twin, the rotax is smoother than a couple 1098s I've ridden, it handled as fast as my 675 Daytona and had egronomics that would allow you to sit on it all day.

I LIKED that bike, but the dealer screwed up that deal, I was an inch from buying one.

130 hp aint bad.... thats for sure. Especially if its legitimately 100 lbs lighter than the rest of those bigger bikes. But the Concourse easily makes 20 hp more.

i guess as long as one can get past the thing being uglier than a bag of smashed assholes....

[dwoodward]

Originally Posted by Tripped1

Tear down a Sportster and a Road King and start swapping parts and tell me how far you get.

All I did was quote you, apparently backpedalling. First you claimed there were NO- none, nada, zero, zip, common parts, then you said some models have shared engines. Make up my mind- do some HDs share parts, or not? I expect they do, or they need to fire some engineers.

I am sick and freaking tired of people saying "literally " when it's obvious to anyone with two brain cells to rub together that it can't be true. You're cheapening your own arguments. Quit it already.


All that noise aside, I'd love to buy a HD, as soon as they build a bike I want to ride. Erik was so, so close to having something that could have taken a serious bite out of the sport-touring market, from riders who lean heavily to the "sport" side of things. If I had suddenly lost either my FJR or my Aprilia in 2008, I'd have bought an 1125R and figured out how to put luggage on it myself.

Then the CEO went and pissed off anyone slightly interested in roadracing or any style of motorcycle except cruisers.

Those of you that have them and like them, I'm happy for you, although I can't get my brain wrapped around "it handles good for what it is", implicitly admitting "what it is" could be improved.

"What it is", isn't for me. I want a bike that is at least as good as I am; riding around the bikes limitations is tiring and dangerous. Until HD builds a bike with a smooth motor, sharp handling, good brakes, comfortable sporty riding position, and is competitive with other sport-touring bikes, I'll shop elsewhere.

[skeeter650]

i think harley would be wise to start producing a reasonably priced scrambler. from what i can tell, they're only competition would be triumph, so they wouldn't really get compared to japanese bikes.

i know a lot of people live on dirt roads, but won't buy a harley cuz they don't want to get them dirty.

400cc's would be a reasonable engine size for such a bike, so a good beginner bike.

[Tripped1]

Originally Posted by dwoodward

All I did was quote you, apparently backpedalling. First you claimed there were NO- none, nada, zero, zip, common parts, then you said some models have shared engines. Make up my mind- do some HDs share parts, or not? I expect they do, or they need to fire some engineers.

I am sick and freaking tired of people saying "literally " when it's obvious to anyone with two brain cells to rub together that it can't be true. You're cheapening your own arguments. Quit it already.

Ok how about we go back to the entire quote?

If you can't tell the difference between a base mid-control sportster and a Road King that isn't Harley's issue really


The bikes share literally nothing.


True statement unless you count the clutch lever and a few bolts that I'm sure cross between the two platforms.

That isn't the case with the Dyna/softail lines, but you see, I chose extremes for a reason.

Originally Posted by dwoodward

All that noise aside, I'd love to buy a HD, as soon as they build a bike I want to ride. Erik was so, so close to having something that could have taken a serious bite out of the sport-touring market, from riders who lean heavily to the "sport" side of things. If I had suddenly lost either my FJR or my Aprilia in 2008, I'd have bought an 1125R and figured out how to put luggage on it myself.

Then the CEO went and pissed off anyone slightly interested in roadracing or any style of motorcycle except cruisers.

Those of you that have them and like them, I'm happy for you, although I can't get my brain wrapped around "it handles good for what it is", implicitly admitting "what it is" could be improved.

"What it is", isn't for me. I want a bike that is at least as good as I am; riding around the bikes limitations is tiring and dangerous. Until HD builds a bike with a smooth motor, sharp handling, good brakes, comfortable sporty riding position, and is competitive with other sport-touring bikes, I'll shop elsewhere.

I agree with that.

[xymotic]

Originally Posted by Tripped1

The bikes share literally nothing.

True statement unless

Unless you use the word literally.

First rule of digging youself into a hole is to stop digging