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Old 01-26-2011, 08:38 PM   #16
rocker59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CopaMundial View Post
they're afraid it will alienate their core customers... who will then all go out and promptly buy Moto Guzzi's and little China bikes.
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Old 01-26-2011, 08:39 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerk View Post
Maybe you should take a basic accounting class at a community college.
+1

Or Google "Harley financial 2010", or look in the other new Harley bashing thread for the link...
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Old 01-26-2011, 08:39 PM   #18
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Whatever Hardley is doing, it worked on this guy:

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Old 01-26-2011, 08:41 PM   #19
heffe
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Old 01-26-2011, 08:48 PM   #20
lemieuxmc
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Dual Sportster? Street Tracker? New generation Morgan? (Can Am Spyder is selling)

I've seen some sweet ones done pretty well and not too expensive.
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Old 01-26-2011, 08:59 PM   #21
xymotic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerk View Post
Maybe you should take a basic accounting class at a community college.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rocker59 View Post
+1

Or Google "Harley financial 2010", or look in the other new Harley bashing thread for the link...
income from financial services of $50.9 million, Operating income from the motorcycles and related products segment was $101.5 million


Now, I am not an accountant... but.

Right off the top, HALF of their income comes from being a bank, not selling motorcycles.

They made 798mil in revenue by selling 53k bikes AND related products...

and they made HALF that again in Parts and Accessories ($219.0 million) and apparel ($64.1 million)

Again, I'm not an accountant, but I do know the difference between revenue and PROFIT. And I also know that it costs a fair amount more to make a motorcycle than it does to buy a T shirt. Their 34.9% profit margin is not coming from motorcycles
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Old 01-26-2011, 09:14 PM   #22
rocker59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xymotic View Post
They made 798mil in revenue by selling 53k bikes AND related products...

and they made HALF that again in Parts and Accessories ($219.0 million) and apparel ($64.1 million)

Again, I'm not an accountant, but I do know the difference between revenue and PROFIT. And I also know that it costs a fair amount more to make a motorcycle than it does to buy a T shirt. Their 34.9% profit margin is not coming from motorcycles
798,000,000 x 10% = 79,800,000

64,100,000 x 34.9% = 22,370,900


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Old 01-26-2011, 09:19 PM   #23
xymotic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocker59 View Post
798,000,000 x 10% = 79,800,000

64,100,000 x 34.9% = 22,370,900


The 798 includes clothing, AND, the 64 is more like a 100% profit. 34.9 is averaged for the entire company.

And where'd you find the 10% number? Cus I think they sell em pretty much at cost
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_Sean
Oh for ***k's sake Aaron. Please link us to my fascist, racist or homophobic posts.
"Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either."
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Baja trip to the tip
6:10 to Yuma
trials and tribulations in the Mojave
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Old 01-26-2011, 09:23 PM   #24
rocker59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xymotic View Post
I think they sell em pretty much at cost
You do?
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Moto Guzzi: LeMans 1000 CI, Sport 1100, V11 LeMans Nero Corsa
IBA #24873, MGNOC #21347
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Old 01-26-2011, 09:23 PM   #25
rocker59
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The Roadwarriors thread for those haters who are interested:

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=654694
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Rocker59 (aka guzzimike), Aux Arcs (NW Arkansas)
Moto Guzzi: LeMans 1000 CI, Sport 1100, V11 LeMans Nero Corsa
IBA #24873, MGNOC #21347
“Just keep playing, no matter how weird it gets.”
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Old 01-26-2011, 10:40 PM   #26
KLXplode
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAKEZ View Post
All they really need to do in build a bike that goes, stops and turns well.

Preferably one that weighs 20% less than whatever it is they first come up with.
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Old 01-26-2011, 11:04 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rapidoxidationman View Post
Whatever Hardley is doing, it worked on this guy:

Say no more!
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Old 01-27-2011, 03:52 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rapidoxidationman View Post
Whatever Hardley is doing, it worked on this guy:


I think the only place he was hiding himself was "in the closet".
Chaps...for easy access!
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Old 01-27-2011, 05:40 AM   #29
LuciferMutt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btcn View Post

I have never heard of this bike! Its a cool little 250 cc true V-Twin Yamaha V-Star! It runs from 0-60 MPH in just under 10 seconds, yet looks like a Harley and has that cool sound! It is a great price too! I think that one has not been advertised very well, or it would be far more popular! This is the engine that Lifan Clones for their 250 V-twin!

!

It's not popular because it's a turd. There are 250 motorcycles costing less that are twice as fast, handle and stop light years better.

You are right that Harleys are too expensive for the young crowd. The other problem is speed, or lack thereof. They aren't fast enough (or don't LOOK fast enough) for the young crowd. Until HD starts building and selling something intended from the ground up to be a bike that handles sharply, stops well and weighs less than 600 lbs, they just aren't going to get the interest of younger riders. It's not HD's fault that young riders want speed and sportiness but it's the truth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue&Yellow View Post
I like Harleys but never bought one because:

1. They are expensive
2. They rust (Yes - there, I've said it. It's a bike built for sunshine and not all weather riding)
3. They have shit brakes, all of them (except maybe the XR1200)
4. Poor attention to detail, Honda's Fury is better built than anything Harley's put out in the last 100 years
5. Poor handling, they're just heavy and slow

Don't get me wrong I'm not a Harley hater, .


Really?

I have to disagree with your points 4 and, to some extent, 5. Modern HD's are extremely well built with excellent fit and finish, amazing paint and very high build quality. They have come lightyears in the last decade or so. As far as poor handling, the new frames on the touring machines have pretty much solved that complaint and they handle surprisingly well for such a large machine. Heavy and slow...well...yeah.



FWIW I think the XR1200 is a huge step in the right direction and it's the only HD I am interested in. Still too much coin for me. The other big hurdle here is getting the younger crown into the stores to SEE this bike. Most of them won't even set foot on HD dealer property.
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Old 01-27-2011, 05:50 AM   #30
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(I preface this commentary by stating I am not anti-Harley. I am merely anti-stupid. Of course, this is just my $.02, currently in danger of being devalued...)

The bottom line is that Harley is continuing to focus on a dying (literally) market. The stunning slaughter of Buell, combined with the insane move of actually paying the former owners of MV Augusta to take the company back, after dumping millions into R&D (the former and current owners had to have loved that...), only signals their continued belief they can perpetuate their current market base ad infinitum. One half-hearted attempt at a new model (the XR1200) since the V-Rod is not going to suffice, given their insistence on continuing a power platform that will never meet tomorrow's market demands. Putting new paint on different combinations of parts in the bins doesn't qualify as innovative engineering, and that's what motorcycle enthusiasts have come to expect. (The 2011 "Blackline"...give me a break.)

You have to give Harley a lot of credit. Not their engineers or management leadership, but rather their marketing department. They have sold a lifestyle, and the cost of admittance is an over-priced motorcycle (plus a black vest, of course). Unfortunately, that lifestyle demographic is rapidly approaching the point where they are going to need flames painted on their powered wheelchairs. Harley better quit looking 5 years down the road and start looking 20 years ahead, or they won't get to that point. The problem is that for them to break with their tradition will immediately impact any positive returns for shareholders, and as short-sighted as that may be, it is typical when corporate bureaucracy overrides love for the sport (are you listening, other major OEMs?).

Harley-Davidson deserves a lot of respect and admiration for being one of the true pioneers of motorcycling. They would get a lot more respect if they begin to recognize where the future of the sport is headed, and get on the bandwagon, before they, like the real Indian and others, are just a memory.
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