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Old 02-01-2011, 07:33 AM   #1
Aurelius OP
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Question I LOVE this TANK Thread

I'm just finishing up a 3-D computer model of a WWII Soviet SU-100 tank (pictured below), and wondered why some tanks were designed without a turret. Was it just to save on production cost, or was it done to make the hull stronger?



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Old 02-01-2011, 07:36 AM   #2
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Isn't that really a tank destroyer? I think they're technically considered self-propelled mobile artillery, not tanks.
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Old 02-01-2011, 07:43 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDLuke View Post
Isn't that really a tank destroyer? I think they're technically considered self-propelled mobile artillery, not tanks.
I'm not sure what their technical designation is, but the SU-100 was built on the chasis of the T-34 tank. The question remains, why build them this way? Doesn't it make them vulnerable to attacks from the flanks?
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Old 02-01-2011, 07:50 AM   #4
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SU-100 is a tank destroyer.

From wiki:


The use of a fixed or casemate superstructure in place of the rotating turret found on normal tanks (except for almost all American WW II designs) confers both strengths and weaknesses upon the tank destroyer. Dispensing with the turret makes tank destroyers significantly cheaper, faster and easier to manufacture than tanks. Tank destroyers can also be fitted with larger superstructures, allowing accommodation of a bigger cannon than could be mounted in a turreted tank on the same chassis, and increasing the vehicle's internal volume, allowing for increased ammunition stowage and crew comfort.[1] Eliminating the turret also allows the vehicle to carry thicker armor than would otherwise be the case.
But
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Old 02-01-2011, 07:52 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurelius View Post
I'm not sure what their technical designation is, but the SU-100 was built on the chasis of the T-34 tank. The question remains, why build them this way? Doesn't it make them vulnerable to attacks from the flanks?
I guess the point is that it's not a main battle tank, and isn't used the same way. It was treated like an artillery piece, and not intended for fighting infantry. In effect, it's a howitzer with an engine and some armor, not a tank with a missing turret. I suspect that the turret was seen as an unnecessary (and expensive) complication.

But I'm not an expert by any stretch, and I'm interested to hear from those who know more than I do about it.
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Old 02-01-2011, 07:54 AM   #6
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I love this quote from wiki :


(the SU-100) was quite capable of defeating any German tank in service, for which Soviet soldiers gave it the obscene nickname "Pizdets vsemu" ("Fucking end to anything")
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Old 02-01-2011, 07:54 AM   #7
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More room for fly chicks.




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Old 02-01-2011, 08:01 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barnstormer View Post
SU-100 is a tank destroyer.

From wiki:


The use of a fixed or casemate superstructure in place of the rotating turret found on normal tanks (except for almost all American WW II designs) confers both strengths and weaknesses upon the tank destroyer. Dispensing with the turret makes tank destroyers significantly cheaper, faster and easier to manufacture than tanks. Tank destroyers can also be fitted with larger superstructures, allowing accommodation of a bigger cannon than could be mounted in a turreted tank on the same chassis, and increasing the vehicle's internal volume, allowing for increased ammunition stowage and crew comfort.[1] Eliminating the turret also allows the vehicle to carry thicker armor than would otherwise be the case.
But
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Old 02-01-2011, 08:04 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barnstormer View Post
SU-100 is a tank destroyer.

From wiki:


The use of a fixed or casemate superstructure in place of the rotating turret found on normal tanks (except for almost all American WW II designs) confers both strengths and weaknesses upon the tank destroyer. Dispensing with the turret makes tank destroyers significantly cheaper, faster and easier to manufacture than tanks. Tank destroyers can also be fitted with larger superstructures, allowing accommodation of a bigger cannon than could be mounted in a turreted tank on the same chassis, and increasing the vehicle's internal volume, allowing for increased ammunition stowage and crew comfort.[1] Eliminating the turret also allows the vehicle to carry thicker armor than would otherwise be the case.
But
This explanation fits also with the soviet manufacturing methods. Simple, strong, reliable, and cheap. Build it heavy but keep it simple.
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Old 02-01-2011, 08:05 AM   #10
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Think artillery with tracks for mobility, not tank.
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Old 02-01-2011, 08:10 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDLuke View Post
I guess the point is that it's not a main battle tank, and isn't used the same way. It was treated like an artillery piece, and not intended for fighting infantry. In effect, it's a howitzer with an engine and some armor, not a tank with a missing turret. I suspect that the turret was seen as an unnecessary (and expensive) complication.

But I'm not an expert by any stretch, and I'm interested to hear from those who know more than I do about it.
The SU-100 was relatively rare in WW2, so it was generally only used in situations where the Soviets expected to encounter German tanks. However, the Germans utilized tank destoyers extensively and usually as direct replacements for tanks.
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Old 02-01-2011, 08:11 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KSJEEPER View Post
Think artillery with tracks for mobility, not tank.
Not artillery. It was a tank that was specially designed for killing other tanks.
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Old 02-01-2011, 08:22 AM   #13
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much lower profile also, makes it easier to conceal.

mainly used as a cheaper defensive unit.
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Old 02-01-2011, 08:29 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FinlandThumper View Post
This explanation fits also with the soviet manufacturing methods. Simple, strong, reliable, and cheap. Build it heavy but keep it simple.
Much like the Ural, then.

The file photos I used for reference reveal that fit & finish on Soviet tanks was incredibly bad - almost as if they'd been built out of mud.

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Old 02-01-2011, 08:31 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barnstormer View Post
(the SU-100) was quite capable of defeating any German tank in service, for which Soviet soldiers gave it the obscene nickname "Pizdets vsemu" ("Fucking end to anything")
Nice.


Nice models, BTW. What are you going to use them for?
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