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Old 02-02-2011, 06:55 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by Hodag View Post

Isreali Merkava MBT
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Old 02-02-2011, 07:00 PM   #92
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Old 02-02-2011, 07:28 PM   #93
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Modern US tanks have used torsion bar suspensions for many years.

This schematic design seems to be a variant of the Christie suspension, used by many Russian tanks. The T-34 used a Christie design.
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Old 02-02-2011, 07:34 PM   #94
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I dont know if this was mentioned but in order for WWII tanks to fire accurately they had to come to complete stops and did not have gun stabilization equipment or sights to shoot accurately on the move. This gave the tank destroyer design merit. The turretless design was excellent for defensive anti-tank roles, cost effective, faster to make, and still had a main gun which could traverse an ample amount of degrees side to side and up down to be highly effective. They had excellent frontal amour but some actually had open tops! The germans were big fans of tank destroyers like the hummel and Sturmgeschutz. But as tanks became better the turretless design was dropped because they just werent any match for a good main battle tank.
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Old 02-02-2011, 08:14 PM   #95
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Old 02-02-2011, 08:27 PM   #96
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Soviet Obiekt 279
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Old 02-02-2011, 08:30 PM   #97
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Old 02-02-2011, 08:32 PM   #98
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Military History Channel used to have a show called "Tank Overhaul". One episode featured the Elephant. Sorry embedding is disabled.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3-kmDaWhb0
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Old 02-02-2011, 08:42 PM   #99
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2AD didn't get stabilized gun systems in our M60A1s until 1977 or 1978.

As a platoon leader in gunnery circa 1976, every engagement started with the command, "Driver Stop".

Early stabilized systems allowed accurate engagements only at pretty slow speeds, 15 MPH or less. Crew training became more important as loaders learned how to work with the breech continually jumping up and down inside the turret in addition to the motion of the tank.

A battlesight engagement required the loader to release the safety located on the left side, forward of the moving breech while holding a second round and swaying "in harmony" with the tank. After the gun fired, he loaded the second round as the gun returned to battery and released the safety with the second fire command.

More than a few loaders got crunched between hard parts inside when they got out of sync with all the stuff moving around.
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Old 02-02-2011, 08:57 PM   #100
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You´re more than right...i meant the direkt confrontation between the German/Russian tanks

(...and i just don´t like the designation "Cannon Fodder")

Sending thousands of soldiers against a superior enemy is more Cannon Fodder to me than this Machine...
You are right, "Cannon Fodder" isn't the proper term to describe the loss of the Elefants at Kursk. I remembered that most were quickly lost early in the battle.
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Old 02-02-2011, 09:02 PM   #101
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"Cannon fodder" from Wiki:

Quote:
The supposedly first attested use of the expression "cannon fodder" belongs to a French writer, François-René de Chateaubriand. In his anti-Napoleonic pamphlet "De Buonaparte et des Bourbons", published in 1814, he criticized the cynical attitude towards recruits, that prevailed in the end of Napoleon's reign: "On en était venu à ce point de mépris pour la vie des hommes et pour la France, d'appeler les conscrits la matière première et la chair à canon" — "the contempt for the lives of men and for France herself has come to the point of calling the conscripts 'the raw material' and 'the cannon fodder'."[2]
Napoleon was originally an artilleryman.
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Old 02-02-2011, 09:26 PM   #102
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Ok peeps Ostfront revisited. Go outside now, with basically what you are wearing plus an overcoat and a pair of boots. In this freaking cold weather. Now fight for about four months. (I know it was longer, but I'm thinking of the cold at Stalingrad...not the entire battle)
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Old 02-02-2011, 10:38 PM   #103
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This could be an interesting thread
I am into all things like this and my dad was in the tanks in the UK - Chieftans and did some gunnery trials on the challenger before he left.

I jsut turned 5 years old at the time so dont remember too much detail from the time, but have read a fair bit

I dont have much to add at the moment but will join in when I can

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Old 02-02-2011, 11:16 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by subybaja View Post
(OT- can anyone explain why the Ripsaw's tensioned tracks are so revolutionary? I don't know much of anything about armor tracks, but that seems pretty obvious...?)
I would imagine the tracks in that picture are under tension so they won't come off. They look rubber to me and I'm sure they would come off easier than steel tracks if they aren't kept under tension.

Of course, steel tracks on, say, a bulldozer or track loader can and do stretch and have been known to jump off their tracks/rollers, but that takes a good deal of time and serious abuse. The rubber tracks just come off much easier. Some of the larger bulldozers like a Caterpillar D9(or larger), for instance, have hydraulic cylinders that keep tension on their steel tracks, but that has more to do with the fact that the tracks don't just run in an oblong shape like on smaller bulldozers.

Any way you look at it...rubber tracks would be more susceptible to stretching/flexing than steel tracks.

I hope that answered your question...if I understood it correctly.
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Old 02-02-2011, 11:38 PM   #105
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I think the ripsaw is so much faster that if they were not kept in constant tension, they would come off all the time
as well, I think they would have to be rubber because they would be lighter - so faster, and a metal track couldn't be kept under tension so quickly because of more moving parts.

no matter how well the pins are sealed, the drag would be too much and then a day or two in the sand / dirt would soon cause wear? - how does that compare to commercial bull dozers etc?

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