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Old 04-25-2012, 02:23 PM   #1681
hillbillypolack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ragtoplvr View Post
He says engine, you want it attached to a motorcycle? Too bad.

Rod
That's funny.
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Old 04-25-2012, 03:13 PM   #1682
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Originally Posted by vtbob View Post
And if we keep both the air cooled in production, it will be easy to maintain those prices and then ask a substantial premium for the Water head with more HP. A win win for BMW. Take that Triumph, Yamaha!
That's what the guy in charge of the Motorrad magazine suggested. The current GS is that good it would be sad
to see it disappear. I think Berlin production capacities would be an issue and not sure about Loncin in China? You'd need another loaction to deal with the "old" boxer engine and assembly and the current facilities to build the LC boxer. Not sure if I would buy old when I can have new?
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Old 04-26-2012, 09:54 PM   #1683
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One way they could continue the 'air cooled' boxer a while longer is to use it only for the RT's, which are already rather highly evolved and have very adequate power. Apart from updating the dash area and adding the fly-by-wire throttle, the RT's need nothing now. The water cooled boxer could be saved for a major update (soon) of the GS/GSA series, similar to the change over from the K1300's to the K1600's. In a few years (or less) they could begin adding the waterboxer to the RT's.
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Old 04-27-2012, 02:16 PM   #1684
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Yeah, the "water" gets cooled by air, so it's aircooled... Long story short :what:

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Old 05-02-2012, 10:38 PM   #1685
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Somehow strange nobody incidentally ran into one of these R1250GS LC test mules since December :-)
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Old 05-02-2012, 11:27 PM   #1686
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Somehow strange nobody incidentally ran into one of these R1250GS LC test mules since December :-)
they all overheaated and seized
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Old 05-03-2012, 04:50 AM   #1687
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From what my dealer said, the GS will get the water cooled engine first and then the RT.

If you can go by this, the last production year of a bike there is always Sapphire Black. The '12 GS/A has it and the RT does.
Ken
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Old 05-03-2012, 07:55 AM   #1688
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Moto Guzzi went liquid..just a matter of time for all of the other players...

http://www.newscanon.com/moto-guzzi-...iquid-cooling/
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Old 05-03-2012, 10:20 AM   #1689
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Originally Posted by MadMike20 View Post
Moto Guzzi went liquid..just a matter of time for all of the other players...

http://www.newscanon.com/moto-guzzi-...iquid-cooling/

Maybe you can enlighten us on how Ducati and HD will develop their lineup.

My take is that as in Ducati's case, and to a lesser degree, HD, BMW will maintain an air/oil cooled Boxer, perhaps as an addition to their GS line. Their sales numbers are 30% from the GS/GSA alone, so perhaps they're broadening that segment.
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Old 05-03-2012, 11:47 AM   #1690
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Originally Posted by isthiscoolenough? View Post
From what my dealer said, the GS will get the water cooled engine first and then the RT.

If you can go by this, the last production year of a bike there is always Sapphire Black. The '12 GS/A has it and the RT does.
Ken
So are you saying we're going to see a WC boxer in the next few months? Doubt it.
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Old 05-03-2012, 12:32 PM   #1691
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So are you saying we're going to see a WC boxer in the next few months? Doubt it.
Proof:
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Old 05-03-2012, 12:41 PM   #1692
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Proof:
Now that is good!!!
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Old 05-03-2012, 12:55 PM   #1693
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Originally Posted by hillbillypolack View Post
Maybe you can enlighten us on how Ducati and HD will develop their lineup.

My take is that as in Ducati's case, and to a lesser degree, HD, BMW will maintain an air/oil cooled Boxer, perhaps as an addition to their GS line. Their sales numbers are 30% from the GS/GSA alone, so perhaps they're broadening that segment.

Regardless of your take, the ability to meet strict emissions requirements in the future will necessitate liquid cooling. Leaner engines produce less pollution but more heat. Itís all been said before. Harley is in the transitioning phase with the V rod and submitting patents for liquid cooled heads/electric pump for their Sportster line up. Porsche transitioned a while back. It is just a matter of time for the rest to do so. Enlightenment on Sundays only.
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Old 05-03-2012, 02:44 PM   #1694
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Originally Posted by MadMike20 View Post
Regardless of your take, the ability to meet strict emissions requirements in the future will necessitate liquid cooling. Leaner engines produce less pollution but more heat. Itís all been said before. Harley is in the transitioning phase with the V rod and submitting patents for liquid cooled heads/electric pump for their Sportster line up. Porsche transitioned a while back. It is just a matter of time for the rest to do so. Enlightenment on Sundays only.

Not as an absolute. I know what you're saying, but working at an OEM, that's not as simple as you've explained it.

The OVERALL emissions from a manufacturer's fleet is what's rated. Why do you think Audi bought Ducati? That's not just an aspirational purchase. What that means moving forward is now Audi can (at their discretion) manufacture cars which may produce more emissions. That 'less efficient' car is balanced out by their highly efficient fleet of motorcycles. Now look at Lamborghini debuting an SUV (owned by Audi coincidentally). It's been done that way for years, which is why companies like Ford offset truck emissions with small cars.

So, in BMW's case, it's even stronger. Say they go to all water cooled bikes, with ONE exception, to carry on their heritage. The air / oil cooled Boxer. They can get away with it since the remainder of their fleet is more than adequately efficient. Also, the current Boxer meets Euro 5, which isn't even in effect yet, so there is a lot of latitude for developing that engine as an air cooled powerplant. VANOS, etc haven't even been put into play.

Plus, how much power you want? HP2 Sports and R1200S motors were able to reliably meet up to 130hp.
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Old 05-03-2012, 08:49 PM   #1695
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I'm going to throw ya a friendly disagreement and argue that the overall efficiency (CAFE standard) of a fleet is what is measured on a wide scale while pollution is measured with a maximum allowable level per vehicle. If your scenario was correct, a manufacturer could build a few million Chevy Volts and complement them with a free flowing Corvette without catalytic converters, egr valves, pesky O2 sensors etc. It is the efficiency of the Volt( provided they could sell one) that allows GM to produce gas guzzling Tahoes and Yukons to the grocery store hopping public.

In addition, adding a motorcycle brand to your fleet would decrease your allowable emissions because on average a motorcycle emits 10 times more pollution than a passenger car. In the case of Audi's purchase, at barely 50,000 units/year, the addition would barely budge Audi's efficiency. Audiís purchase is an image enhancer. Notice it is billed as a purchase by Audi and not the parent company Volkswagen.


The only reason the EPA doesn't clamp down on motorcycle emissions as much as they do cars is because they account for a small portion of miles traveled. Nonetheless, the clamping is coming, and if BMW wants to hit the high horsepower numbers with lean burning combustion chambers, they have to liquefy.

I agree with your horsepower comment. In reality, what we have is plenty but that wonít make a glitzy advertisement or front page of a motor rag.
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