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Old 09-01-2012, 08:13 PM   #2101
trc.rhubarb
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Originally Posted by hillbillypolack View Post
Maybe you misunderstand me. I'm not referencing the current air cooled twin. I'm calling to mind that when they transition to water cooling, does it make sense to have an opposed (wide) engine that was originally designed for air cooling?

Or should the engine layout then morph into further advantages based on what the GS itself represents (high torque, reliability, emissions concerns, etc)?
I didn't misunderstand, just didn't explain well. The GS is a boxer, must be a boxer. The only reason I bought it and I'm sure many other's did as well is because of the history, nostalgia, design...

It might be water cooled heads but it's still more than likely going to vibrate, rattle and make funny noises. Just like I want my bikes to do. (no idea why i want them to, its not something i've ever been able to explain)

If the gsNEW isn't a boxer, BMW will risk losing a big chunk of their loyal customers. Certainly there are better bikes/motors out there today if you want just performance numbers.
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Old 09-01-2012, 09:10 PM   #2102
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Originally Posted by trc.rhubarb View Post
I didn't misunderstand, just didn't explain well. The GS is a boxer, must be a boxer. The only reason I bought it and I'm sure many other's did as well is because of the history, nostalgia, design...

It might be water cooled heads but it's still more than likely going to vibrate, rattle and make funny noises. Just like I want my bikes to do. (no idea why i want them to, its not something i've ever been able to explain)

If the gsNEW isn't a boxer, BMW will risk losing a big chunk of their loyal customers. Certainly there are better bikes/motors out there today if you want just performance numbers.

I'm following you-somewhat.

In my naive opinion, I got the GS because it was a large displacement air cooled bike with lots of torque. Once the air cooled thing starts getting squished out of the equation I guess I'm less interested. Only because there are lots of other, more efficient water cooled engine packages. KTM and Tenere come to mind simply because they're narrower and in KTM's case, equally world-proven.

Now, I completely understand the heritage thing, but adhering to 'more power, more EU compliance, water cooling' seems to negate the Boxer layout. So, if BMW designs bikes for optimal efficiency. . . . doesn't the water cooled bike look a bit phony having those vestigal cylinders positioned out low and wide?
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Old 09-01-2012, 09:47 PM   #2103
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Old 09-01-2012, 09:58 PM   #2104
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How is a water cooled BMW not getting close to a KTM? Yes, I know, the chain vs. shaft drive thing. Nominally more comfortable seat on the BMW, different farkle options from the same catalog.

Okay, I'm being sarcastic, but they become very very close with water cooled engines. YMMV?
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Old 09-02-2012, 04:16 AM   #2105
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Did anyone else see the piece about new the BMW models on the Motorrad website? (Translated version.)

I've pulled this from the rather inelegant from the Google translation tools, but you get the idea.

A naked R 1250 R with shorter travel suspension, the GS as she is, just as conceivable as a R 1250 ST as a classic sports tourer. And at the very end, for 2014, is Boxer Sport drivers can also hope for a very sporty version with 150-horsepower boxer make water.

There's been no sign of a water cooled RT. It's possible that one will turn up at Intermot, as the GS and RT were updated together last time.

The R1200R went onto the new heads a year after the GS and RT, so will probably be in the second or even third wave of updated models. There have been spy shots of a new Roadster model, but it's got the current engine, and the existing bike is continuing next year.

The Boxer Sport though...
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Old 09-02-2012, 06:37 AM   #2106
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What's the advantage of staying a boxer?
The answer or one of them would be ease of servicing and repairs. There are very few bikes out there that you can check the valve clearance on without dismantling half the bike.
Oh by the way the GS is not only a boxer, the 800 can be a GS as well. It's the R that is a boxer.
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Old 09-02-2012, 06:48 AM   #2107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Graemsay View Post
Did anyone else see the piece about new the BMW models on the Motorrad website? (Translated version.)

I've pulled this from the rather inelegant from the Google translation tools, but you get the idea.

A naked R 1250 R with shorter travel suspension, the GS as she is, just as conceivable as a R 1250 ST as a classic sports tourer. And at the very end, for 2014, is Boxer Sport drivers can also hope for a very sporty version with 150-horsepower boxer make water.

There's been no sign of a water cooled RT. It's possible that one will turn up at Intermot, as the GS and RT were updated together last time.

The R1200R went onto the new heads a year after the GS and RT, so will probably be in the second or even third wave of updated models. There have been spy shots of a new Roadster model, but it's got the current engine, and the existing bike is continuing next year.

The Boxer Sport though...
Indeed a 150hp Sport boxer, now that could be fun. In a GS more power really isn't an issue and interests me very little, a R1250S done properly though...
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Old 09-02-2012, 11:47 AM   #2108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Graemsay View Post
Did anyone else see the piece about new the BMW models on the Motorrad website? (Translated version.)

I've pulled this from the rather inelegant from the Google translation tools, but you get the idea.

A naked R 1250 R with shorter travel suspension, the GS as she is, just as conceivable as a R 1250 ST as a classic sports tourer. And at the very end, for 2014, is Boxer Sport drivers can also hope for a very sporty version with 150-horsepower boxer make water.

There's been no sign of a water cooled RT. It's possible that one will turn up at Intermot, as the GS and RT were updated together last time.

The R1200R went onto the new heads a year after the GS and RT, so will probably be in the second or even third wave of updated models. There have been spy shots of a new Roadster model, but it's got the current engine, and the existing bike is continuing next year.

The Boxer Sport though...
The last few words "horsepower boxer make water" is that implying that only the 150hp sport will get the water cooled engine?
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Old 09-02-2012, 02:50 PM   #2109
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Originally Posted by JoeDuck View Post
The last few words "horsepower boxer make water" is that implying that only the 150hp sport will get the water cooled engine?
The GS is the Top-Seller across Europe and the most important model for BMW Motorrad so it only makes sense to introduce the new engine in that model.


www.motorradonline.de

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Old 09-02-2012, 07:03 PM   #2110
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What's the advantage of staying a boxer?
The same advantage that Harley Davidson gains by retaining the V-twin....a loyal following.
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Old 09-03-2012, 01:43 AM   #2111
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I've been riding boxer motors for 35 years. They have a nice lazy way of making power and making it in a way that's really usable, even in crappy conditions.

Yeah, you could make it a parallel twin with counterbalancer like the 800, but the boxer motor is very, very distinctive. That's the heritage.

It'd be great if the R1250R turns out to be a Monster beater. CW had a photo and it looked like a /7 or something. Big tank and a flat seat at about the same height. It looked like it had male slider forks instead of a telelever. I could get with that. That's a BMW style heritage bike.
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Old 09-03-2012, 03:19 AM   #2112
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Originally Posted by kbasa View Post
I've been riding boxer motors for 35 years. They have a nice lazy way of making power and making it in a way that's really usable, even in crappy conditions.

Yeah, you could make it a parallel twin with counterbalancer like the 800, but the boxer motor is very, very distinctive. That's the heritage.

It'd be great if the R1250R turns out to be a Monster beater. CW had a photo and it looked like a /7 or something. Big tank and a flat seat at about the same height. It looked like it had male slider forks instead of a telelever. I could get with that. That's a BMW style heritage bike.
Isn't what you mean the R1200R that will come out next year? with the same 'old' 2010 engine?
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Old 09-03-2012, 07:50 AM   #2113
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The boxer advantages, with or without water:

Lower center of gravity

Easy access for service or repairs

Best foot protection in an accident: this is backed up by studies by Hurt and others.



What I think is a negative with the new design, if I'm not mistaken on the design having not studied it, is the sharing of engine oil with the clutch and transmission. There are advantages to having them separate. I also like the single plate dry clutch, very light to work all day and fewer parts to replace.

Or course a wet clutch can take more abuse but abusing a clutch was not a popular thing to do until ADV made abuse of fine machines obligatory for attaining manhood.
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Old 09-03-2012, 10:58 AM   #2114
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Originally Posted by slipknot View Post
The boxer advantages, with or without water:

Lower center of gravity...

I'm not so sure about the low center of gravity. The aluminum heads and cylinders on any engine are fairly light but is there any other engine which has the heaviest part of it (crank and bottom end) located so high?
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Old 09-03-2012, 11:42 AM   #2115
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What's the advantage of staying a boxer?
The prime reason for the Boxer engine is perfect primary harmonic balance. For a given displacement, an inline configuration cannot approach the smoothness of the Boxer. This is why Porsche, Subaru and most light aircraft engines are Boxer Configuration. In the case of the light aircraft, there is the small matter of FAA certification and difficulty of obtaining said cert...
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