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Old 12-21-2012, 06:00 AM   #4111
Marki_GSA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vtbob View Post
the measure that we seem to be talking about in lifting and maneuvering the bike around is center of gravity and center of mass(dynamic effects)

the boxer twin has traditionally allowed these to be lower...just like Porsche etc

jacking the bike up for high ground clearance kills these benefits.

what puzzels me in the new GS ia that BMW has again put the gas tank yet again at the highest(worst) point possible.
They allso make the tail end of the bike unnecessary high...far more than the rear suspension travel demands, and this put both the side bags and top bags higher that necessary.

all of these things raise the C of G, make the bike harder to pick up, and make slow speed dynamic handling more difficult.

The F800 series atleast puts the gas lower under the seat.
The fuel is lower in the new bike as it's the airbox that is up high. The fuel is now on top of the gearbox.
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Old 12-21-2012, 06:03 AM   #4112
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The blue is growlng on me but I still prefer the white one.



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Old 12-21-2012, 08:03 AM   #4113
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[QUOTE=oalvarez;20299135]The blue is growlng on me but I still prefer the white one.

There may be a topical ointment available for that.
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Old 12-21-2012, 08:07 AM   #4114
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^ anything but more cog/relative weight talk
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Old 12-21-2012, 08:49 AM   #4115
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some prices here in € / Belgium (21% tax)

http://jemelapetenflat.xooit.be/t274....htm?start=180
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Old 12-21-2012, 08:58 AM   #4116
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Originally Posted by marchyman View Post
So I'm not the only idiot who can drop the bike in maybe 2" of sand.



Every time I tried to lift it the front end walked away from me.
Love that crash bar set! Looks sturdy!
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Old 12-21-2012, 12:09 PM   #4117
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Originally Posted by Marki_GSA View Post
The fuel is lower in the new bike as it's the airbox that is up high. The fuel is now on top of the gearbox.
Thought I'll help viewers to get a better idea.
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Old 12-21-2012, 02:28 PM   #4118
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Originally Posted by viz View Post
Interesting maybe but not unusual. I also use that combination - it is a very practical all-round touring option

viz


Although, I'm looking forward to trying a set of the Karoo 3 when they come out. Maybe even on a new GS... assuming I like some future test ride on the GS LC.
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Old 12-21-2012, 02:47 PM   #4119
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Originally Posted by Montauk View Post
Thought I'll help viewers to get a better idea.
Yeap, even in the old bike, the fuel is held much lower than it appears with the plastic panels on...not sure that under the seat on the F800 is really that much lower.
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Old 12-21-2012, 03:24 PM   #4120
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IMHO the new fuel tank is about as high as can be done.

Note the fuel filler is on top of the tank and the previous great picture show that clearly, the air intake/filter/plenum takes the forward portion. this air system helps a bit from putting more of the fuel weight over the front wheel.

If BMW had put it under the seat this picture show it would have been about a foot lower. 5 gallons is a bout 35 lbs and have that a foot lower under the seat would make a difference. It also would have put more of the weight on the rear wheel.

dirt bikes ususally keep the front wheel light, road racer put weight on the front. So BMW has made the new GS a better road bike....this is also seen by the selection on the wider front and rear wheels.

good for those of us who ride dirt and pave roads ( by far the largest set of GS riders) not so good for those who truely go off road.
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Old 12-21-2012, 03:44 PM   #4121
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Originally Posted by vtbob View Post
IMHO the new fuel tank is about as high as can be done.

Note the fuel filler is on top of the tank and the previous great picture show that clearly, the air intake/filter/plenum takes the forward portion. this air system helps a bit from putting more of the fuel weight over the front wheel.

If BMW had put it under the seat this picture show it would have been about a foot lower. 5 gallons is a bout 35 lbs and have that a foot lower under the seat would make a difference. It also would have put more of the weight on the rear wheel.

dirt bikes ususally keep the front wheel light, road racer put weight on the front. So BMW has made the new GS a better road bike....this is also seen by the selection on the wider front and rear wheels.

good for those of us who ride dirt and pave roads ( by far the largest set of GS riders) not so good for those who truly go off road.
Yes but remember this is the GS and not the GSA. The very serious off roaders might well wait until the GSA is out and in theory this might carry the extra fuel under the seat. Course it could also just wrap round the airbox and make the tank wider as it is now. Nobody bar BMW knows about that if even they do at this moment in time.
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Old 12-21-2012, 03:47 PM   #4122
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"If BMW had put it under the seat this picture show it would have been about a foot lower. 5 gallons is a bout 35 lbs and have that a foot lower under the seat would make a difference. It also would have put more of the weight on the rear wheel."

And they would have made a really poorly handling bike.

Big bikes go down on simple dirt because the front end is too light, not because it's too heavy.

Have you ever ridden a big bike with full paniers - in the dirt? Why do you think riders unload their bikes before they play in the dirt? Why do you think a K-60 on the rear and a TKC-80 on the front is such a good combination? Because the rear end is too heavy and the front end is too light for control.

BTW, loading the front wheel for turns is a Supermoto trick that the road racers picked up from the Supermoto riders. Not the other way around.
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Old 12-21-2012, 05:23 PM   #4123
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BMW has made the new GS a better road bike. I think suits they way most GS riders use their bike so most will like this.

Riding off road is quite different than racing a well groomed super moto track at max speed.

Off road means riding thru soft sand, lifting the front over large rocks, keeping directional control in loose gravel with out the front washing out, riding up stream beds over slippery rocks, riding thru deep mud and evan going over a fallen tree if necessary. All of this is done far easier if the front end is light and/or can be made light with power and shifting rider position. In poor traction conditions, more of the steering is done with the throttle and moving the rear wheel around. Riding in these conditions is not improved by putting more weight on the front wheel, leaning forward, etc etc.

I not criticizing the new GS but just observing the design changes and what that mean in it's off road capability...and conversely its improving on pavement handling.

These are the same reasons that the KTMs are superior off road adventure bikes. but evan they are poor off road compared to the 450/650 singles that weigh 300lbs ...and are very easy to make the front end light for control.
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Old 12-21-2012, 06:11 PM   #4124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vtbob View Post
BMW has made the new GS a better road bike. I think suits they way most GS riders use their bike so most will like this.

Riding off road is quite different than racing a well groomed super moto track at max speed.

Off road means riding thru soft sand, lifting the front over large rocks, keeping directional control in loose gravel with out the front washing out, riding up stream beds over slippery rocks, riding thru deep mud and evan going over a fallen tree if necessary. All of this is done far easier if the front end is light and/or can be made light with power and shifting rider position. In poor traction conditions, more of the steering is done with the throttle and moving the rear wheel around. Riding in these conditions is not improved by putting more weight on the front wheel, leaning forward, etc etc.

I not criticizing the new GS but just observing the design changes and what that mean in it's off road capability...and conversely its improving on pavement handling.

These are the same reasons that the KTMs are superior off road adventure bikes. but evan they are poor off road compared to the 450/650 singles that weigh 300lbs ...and are very easy to make the front end light for control.
So buy a KTM But also a consideration is as an adventure bike, it's designed to carry a pillion and luggage..perhaps putting the fuel back there as well would unbalance the bike. The bottom line is, maybe you should actually ride it in the dirt before you draw conclusions about its dirt worthiness. I'm sure BMW mounted the fuel tank as high as possible because they had no clue about the impact of it's weight
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Old 12-21-2012, 07:35 PM   #4125
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Originally Posted by twinrider View Post
I've owned the S10 for about a month and am still impressed how Yamaha managed to make it feel so light, well balanced and nimble. It's a real pleasure to ride even through heavy city traffic and wheeling it around is a cinch.
I'll defer to your experience, perhaps factoring in some new owner bias...because the S10 was pretty universally hammered in the press for being a pi... hefty.
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