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Old 03-25-2013, 03:30 AM   #7321
RichBMW
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cug View Post
1) Riding off the lot the bike felt like it had a dog slow turn in. I was so put off, I tried to verify this for the rest of the ride over and over again, and it always felt like I really had to force it into turns. Riding a twisty mountain road I really disliked the slow steering feel. I had a hard time riding good lines in the corners, always felt like it wanted to go really wide. I don't know whether that was due to the wider, heavier tires, the suspension setup (it was a standard, not dynamic ESA), or whatever. I never felt this on my old GS. Really put me off.

8) Love the tight turning radius. You can turn that bike on a dime. Especially coming from the Tiger which has oil tanker like turning radius.
This seems like a contradiction to me
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Old 03-25-2013, 04:03 AM   #7322
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Since I'm coming from a first gen Concours which has a turning radius just slightly greater than an ore freighter, I'll probably be happy...
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Old 03-25-2013, 04:26 AM   #7323
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Originally Posted by cug View Post
Yesterday I had a chance to test ride the new GS
You didnt mention anything about cockpit heat. You didn't notice that ?
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Old 03-25-2013, 04:59 AM   #7324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cug View Post
Yesterday I had a chance to test ride the new GS and of course, took it. Here are my impressions in no particular order.

Please note that my main reference is my current Triumph Tiger 800 (Road Model) which has been extensively enhanced, with proper suspension set up for my weight, aftermarket windshield, bar risers, and the like. I did own a 2010 R1200GS and think I still recall how that felt.
.
.
.

There is also a good chance that the bike was set up completely wrong for me, I didn't fiddle with anything as there just wasn't enough time, so no adjustments done, nothing even checked.

Overall I came away unimpressed by the whole package. There are some things that are incredibly good, but also some that really put me off. I was not unhappy to give the bike back and to get back on my Tiger and ride the same roads just for comparison. Liked the Tiger better there. And if I recall correctly, I also liked my old GS better (which had ESA and Road Attack II tires).

I will do another test ride later this year, on a bike with dynamic ESA, just for comparison, but for now - there is no danger of me going out and buying the 2013 GS. I feared that I would want one after the test ride and have to say: nope, definitely not the bike I rode yesterday.
Thanks for sharing your impressions of the new 1200GS LC. It seams as your main objective towards the basic 1200GS LC without dynamic ESA is the suspension. If you have the opportunity sometime to take a 1200GS LC with dynamic ESA for a test ride then it could be interesting to hear your thoughts on the dynamic ESA. You may find it to be a very positive surprise.

Max :-)
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Old 03-25-2013, 06:10 AM   #7325
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cug View Post
Yesterday I had a chance to test ride the new GS and of course, took it. Here are my impressions in no particular order.

...

1) Riding off the lot the bike felt like it had a dog slow turn in. I was so put off, I tried to verify this for the rest of the ride over and over again, and it always felt like I really had to force it into turns. Riding a twisty mountain road I really disliked the slow steering feel. I had a hard time riding good lines in the corners, always felt like it wanted to go really wide. I don't know whether that was due to the wider, heavier tires, the suspension setup (it was a standard, not dynamic ESA), or whatever. I never felt this on my old GS. Really put me off.

...

9) Transmission and Shaft: didn't like it. Didn't like it at all. The transmission felt clunky, loud, and there was a lot of resistance when shifting, there was also lots of drive line lashing, throttle on/off transitions didn't feel good at all. First time in the last 10 years that I rode a shaft drive bike and felt it was not well done. Also it felt that it interfered with the rear suspension under throttle. Made it even harsher on bumps and felt like it had a hard time keeping the rear tire on the road.

There is also a good chance that the bike was set up completely wrong for me, I didn't fiddle with anything as there just wasn't enough time, so no adjustments done, nothing even checked.

...
Thank you for the report. Points 1 and 9 are surprising, however, since they are the almost exact opposite of what MOST (not all, but really most) people have reported. Yes, maybe the bike wasn't actually set up correctly for you. As for the transmission being clunky, it will probably soften a bit after break-in and a lot more over time. I know my old GS's and recent RT's did.
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Old 03-25-2013, 06:28 AM   #7326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cug View Post
Yesterday I had a chance to test ride the new GS and of course, took it. Here are my impressions in no particular order.

Please note that my main reference is my current Triumph Tiger 800 (Road Model) which has been extensively enhanced, with proper suspension set up for my weight, aftermarket windshield, bar risers, and the like. I did own a 2010 R1200GS and think I still recall how that felt.


1) Riding off the lot the bike felt like it had a dog slow turn in. I was so put off, I tried to verify this for the rest of the ride over and over again, and it always felt like I really had to force it into turns. Riding a twisty mountain road I really disliked the slow steering feel. I had a hard time riding good lines in the corners, always felt like it wanted to go really wide. I don't know whether that was due to the wider, heavier tires, the suspension setup (it was a standard, not dynamic ESA), or whatever. I never felt this on my old GS. Really put me off.

2) Wow, that engine is freaking strong. It feels like twice the power and torque compared to my 800cc 95HP Tiger, not just the 30% it actually is.

3) The engine revs super quick, supported by the super light throttle action. I liked that one. It takes away the tractor feeling a bit but not completely. The engine still vibrates quite a bit, but at a frequency I think can be easily tolerated on long days.

4) Excellent brakes. Much, much better than the ones on my Tiger. Really well defined action and great stopping power without too much force needed. I wish my Tiger had brakes like that.

5) Very good ergonomics. I rode with the seat in the low setting which I think was a mistake, but it was just what the bike was set up and I didn't want to play around, I wanted to ride. Leg room felt about the same as on my Tiger, thighs were about level with the ground. Lower pegs would be a good idea for me (34" inseam). Handlebar was spot on, about as good out of the box as my Tiger is now after serious adjustments and added bits.

6) The new handguards don't direct wind at the helmet anymore, but also have less coverage than the old style ones when the higher spoiler was installed. Still a significant improvement.

7) Windshield put the wind right on my neck under the helmet in the low position - useless for riding, super loud. Adjusted all the way up it was very good. I feel I could do long tours without thinking about a replacement windshield. A definite step up from that POS they used before on the standard GS and significantly better than the Adventure shield I had on my GS. About as good at the helmet as my Tiger with Palmer Large Shield, but much better around the rest of the upper body. Overall, the wind and weather protection is very good.

8) Love the tight turning radius. You can turn that bike on a dime. Especially coming from the Tiger which has oil tanker like turning radius.

9) Transmission and Shaft: didn't like it. Didn't like it at all. The transmission felt clunky, loud, and there was a lot of resistance when shifting, there was also lots of drive line lashing, throttle on/off transitions didn't feel good at all. First time in the last 10 years that I rode a shaft drive bike and felt it was not well done. Also it felt that it interfered with the rear suspension under throttle. Made it even harsher on bumps and felt like it had a hard time keeping the rear tire on the road.

10) Suspension was shit for my weight (156lbs without clothes). Sorry, but that's really what it was. This was a bike with a standard suspension, not dynamic ESA. The spring was fairly soft, compression damping was very harsh, especially in the front, rebound was better than compression but bounced the bike around quite a bit. The suspension was about as good/bad as my Tiger was when new and unchanged. Therefore - take that with a grain of salt, I ride a bike sprung for my weight, fully adjustable, and professionally set up. I'd have to do the same for the GS if I buy one. It's an expensive bike and I'd have to plan for another $2k for proper suspension. Maybe the dynamic ESA is much better - I certainly hope so. It's ~$2k either way - be that Wilbers or Öhlins or Dynamic ESA with one of the packages.

There is also a good chance that the bike was set up completely wrong for me, I didn't fiddle with anything as there just wasn't enough time, so no adjustments done, nothing even checked.

Overall I came away unimpressed by the whole package. There are some things that are incredibly good, but also some that really put me off. I was not unhappy to give the bike back and to get back on my Tiger and ride the same roads just for comparison. Liked the Tiger better there. And if I recall correctly, I also liked my old GS better (which had ESA and Road Attack II tires).

I will do another test ride later this year, on a bike with dynamic ESA, just for comparison, but for now - there is no danger of me going out and buying the 2013 GS. I feared that I would want one after the test ride and have to say: nope, definitely not the bike I rode yesterday.
Are you sure you were riding the 2013GS, perhaps the tyres were flat or perhaps you are 35 stone!!!

I have done just over 500 miles on mine, and it is a really quick turning bike at any speed, it tracks through corners more precisely than just about any other bike out there and certainly much better than the older GSes. There is almost no vibration from the engine. My bike is the standard suspension, I don't have dynamic ESA and the way it steers and corners is excellent - are you sure that you weren't riding a Triumph

P.S. the gearbox only clunks (sometimes) when going into 1st, just like almost every chain driven bike on the market.
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Old 03-25-2013, 06:39 AM   #7327
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Did the demo bike have ASC automatic stability control? if so it must have been turned off, because the front wheel shouldn't be coming off the ground like that.
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Old 03-25-2013, 06:55 AM   #7328
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Cool2 over 1 million reads to this thread...!!!! WOW

and to that end, many many inmates and friends will be reading ( this thread) more in the future. SO....IT WILL BE most interesting to see if more riders feel like CUG! If more reviews like his are posted, BMW may have to take the LC back to the drawing board. Than again maybe not.

I do know this however. CUG rode two vastly different machines. They have over 75 yrs difference of technology ie forks compared to Telelever, chain compared to Paralever, throttle cables compared to fly by wire...on and on.
In the past when I would ride a friends bike that was not the modern BMW but old school forks and chain etc, I kinda felt like CUG but in the opposite direction. ............JUS SAYIN.......

Life is sure interesting.....yes?
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Old 03-25-2013, 07:39 AM   #7329
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Racegun..have any other new bike models generated as much interest as the new GS LC???
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Old 03-25-2013, 07:43 AM   #7330
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Originally Posted by leafman60 View Post
You didnt mention anything about cockpit heat. You didn't notice that ?
The heat must have been quite noticeable on the example you rode.
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Old 03-25-2013, 07:45 AM   #7331
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Originally Posted by mrjon View Post
Did the demo bike have ASC automatic stability control? if so it must have been turned off, because the front wheel shouldn't be coming off the ground like that.
Shouldn't but I bet it was a hoot.
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Old 03-25-2013, 07:47 AM   #7332
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Originally Posted by Racegun View Post
Life is sure interesting.....yes?
Sure is.

Thing is, cug didn't like the bike even before he rode it.
Read his older posts.

Anyway all comments on a new machine are welcome and fit in the puzzle. I agree.

Now a varadero rider that moved (or wants to move) to crosstourer? I am sure he will (have to) hate the new GS too. Same for some MS12 riders and others.

(all these are as common as older GS riders that need to justify NOT getting a new one - happens about a million times a day)
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Old 03-25-2013, 07:51 AM   #7333
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Originally Posted by mrjon View Post
Did the demo bike have ASC automatic stability control? if so it must have been turned off, because the front wheel shouldn't be coming off the ground like that.
Well... it all depends.
You cannot do a proper wheelie with ASC on, but wheel CAN rise with ASC on, it is just that when wheel speed difference varies much that ASC cuts in and drops the wheel.
In "old" GS with ASC in dirt mode (I used to switch it there as initially I found it hypersensitive for Greek bad tarmac) you can do even more.
Now if new GS has a smarter ASC and/or tuned differently (AND the bike is more powerful AND e-gas with the shorter throttle turn helps) I am pretty sure little wheelies like that are entirely possible even with ASC.
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Old 03-25-2013, 07:52 AM   #7334
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This seems like a contradiction to me
Actually he talks about two different things.
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Old 03-25-2013, 07:56 AM   #7335
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Racegun..have any other new bike models generated as much interest as the new GS LC???
i was thinking the exact same thing. Only a few to be sure....
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