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Old 04-01-2013, 04:50 AM   #7816
UK_Engineer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tau View Post
I can see that still nobody has answered my questions; therefore I'm asking you another one: would you buy it / order it without ESA?

Please explain your reply. Just to be frank with you guys, I'm willing to order it without ESA, as:

- I consider the manual adjustment being more suitable / accurate.
- lower replacement cost

My main problem / concern the case I order it without ESA, is the front suspension which ... can not be adjusted ...!
OK I'll answer I bought a base model without ESA, so the front suspension is non - adjustable. I had the previous base model 2010 twin-cam GS and that had pre-load adjustment on the front suspension. I used to occasionally adjust the front pre-load BUT to be honest it made little difference in practice for 'normal' riding - if you were heavily laden off-road then perhaps it was useful but for 90% of the time it remained two stops up from minimum. I suspect that 99% of riders of the base model never changed the front pre-load so BMW thought why include it on the new model - rear pre-preload and damping is far more important and I used to change this all the time.

I am not yet a fan of ESA or dynamic ESA, if you don't do many miles it is probably a nice thing to have, but once the damping goes off after high mileage it is going to cost a fortune to replace - anyone buying a high mileage second hand bike beware, I would say that it would detract from the re-sale value of the bike.
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Old 04-01-2013, 05:02 AM   #7817
MaxReving
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twinrider View Post
I like the Cee Bailey headlight guards. They won't win as many admiring looks outside Starbucks but they give good protection without blocking any light and they pop off in a second for cleaning.

The BMW headlight guard for the 2013 1200GS LC:



Rubber mounts for easy removal.

Max :-)
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Old 04-01-2013, 05:29 AM   #7818
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UK_Engineer View Post
OK I'll answer I bought a base model without ESA, so the front suspension is non - adjustable. I had the previous base model 2010 twin-cam GS and that had pre-load adjustment on the front suspension. I used to occasionally adjust the front pre-load BUT to be honest it made little difference in practice for 'normal' riding - if you were heavily laden off-road then perhaps it was useful but for 90% of the time it remained two stops up from minimum. I suspect that 99% of riders of the base model never changed the front pre-load so BMW thought why include it on the new model - rear pre-preload and damping is far more important and I used to change this all the time.

I am not yet a fan of ESA or dynamic ESA, if you don't do many miles it is probably a nice thing to have, but once the damping goes off after high mileage it is going to cost a fortune to replace - anyone buying a high mileage second hand bike beware, I would say that it would detract from the re-sale value of the bike.

I agree! While ESA is nice and it works when new, one has to wonder how long before they need to be rebuilt. Seems like I remember there were BMW ESA type suspension in the past that WAS NOT REBUILDABLE!

Think about it. Shocks on ANY motor vehicle are moving a great deal, all of the time the machine is rolling. Truly those moving parts take a BEATING more so than internal engine parts. The internal parts are lubricated by the same oil. Unlike an Engine, shock oil is seldom if ever changed ( these days...not yesteryear) As parts wear...and they WILL, the internal lubricant will become more contaminated. The more contaminated, the faster the wear. Granted it will take time, maybe years. It is not a matter of if, but WHEN! I would prefer a good set of - - - - - ( pick your flavor) ( me...wilburs or Ohlins cause that is what I know.

OTOH, most folks don't keep bikes long enough to worry about this. They seem to gravitate to buying the latest and greatest. It is all good either way.

One thing, the ESA is a great tool for allowing the ride to be premium at all times. Maybe in some ways a great set of Ohlins or Wilburs etc, would be a bit of a compromise when compared to ESA. However when one compares STOCK to Wilbers or Ohlins ... you think you are riding an entirely different M/C
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Old 04-01-2013, 05:30 AM   #7819
kindofblue
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Question

And how much, might I ask, do those run?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxReving View Post
The BMW headlight guard for the 2013 1200GS LC:



Rubber mounts for easy removal.

Max :-)
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Old 04-01-2013, 05:35 AM   #7820
twinrider
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxReving View Post
The BMW headlight guard for the 2013 1200GS LC:

Rubber mounts for easy removal.

Max :-)
Very nice.
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Old 04-01-2013, 06:31 AM   #7821
kaiserlover
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Laugh general finish r1200lc

thank god someone else went to the eye doctor. welds by a 6th grader is perfect description for the above picts. for some reason they won't let me post attachments but i could raise a few more eyebrows with what i saw in regards to "german quality". welcome to profiteering at it's finest. this is the world we live in now. they won't spend the time to make it properly.
2013 r1200gs lc being "best motorcycle in the world" this quality is unacceptable. the triple black gsa i saw last year which was finished to a very high level is what i expect from bmw. this is not a step up but a step down. just saying what i feel. ya ya ya
yes i know don't buy one if you don't like it.
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Old 04-01-2013, 06:36 AM   #7822
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Seems you are not Kaiser lover any more.



Took the time to closely check some large photos of the new frames.
Ineed there seems to be like a bit excesive use of welding material.
Not bad welding though (I am not an expert, will ask an expert these days, as I happen to know one that does this for a living the last 45 years of his life).
No empty or really rough spots.
Yes maybe they should trim these a bit (like Holan), but is different to make something 200 or 2000 times, and different to do it 200,000 times.

What I am saying, is that the important thing (to be proven by time) is that these things last and don't rust.

I have to say that oilhead GS in some environments and uses HAS shown signs of rust (mostly bolts or where rider boots rub with the frame.
(that said, it hasn't happened to me - bike parks 500m from seaside in an open garage for the last 6 years)
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Old 04-01-2013, 06:39 AM   #7823
kaiserlover
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sidestand

can someone closeup photo the hinge on the sidestand? it is stunning!
listen peace to all but if someone does'nt start talking about this stuff we are all doomed.
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Old 04-01-2013, 06:42 AM   #7824
MaxReving
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kindofblue View Post
And how much, might I ask, do those run?
Headlight protector, item no. 77 51 8 529 214, approx. 100 Euro (in Europe) or 100 USD (in the US).

Max :-)
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Old 04-01-2013, 06:44 AM   #7825
kaiserlover
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NLS View Post
Seems you are not Kaiser lover any more.

what's my dog got to do with it?
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Old 04-01-2013, 07:23 AM   #7826
tau
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UK Engineer and Racegun, thanks for your replies / comments - I do agree with you!

ESA is a very nice feature, BUT the moment it has to be replaced, there is no doubt it surely makes you angry - and the wallet will be crying...!
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Old 04-01-2013, 07:51 AM   #7827
Serp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick 187 View Post
Currently I'm riding a 2010 R12 GS with a low factory low suspension. The older bikes with low suspension were not available with ESA. As I understand it there is a factory low suspension option however does anyone know if the riding modes and ESA is available on the 2013 low suspension model?

Thanks

Nick
Yes a low suspension model can be ordered but it is not available with ESA.
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Old 04-01-2013, 08:06 AM   #7828
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BMW Headlight Guard

Quote:
Originally Posted by kindofblue View Post
And how much, might I ask, do those run?
I've ordered the headlight guard for a mere $156.72.
Also ordered the luggage plate - 77448523742 and small tankbag - 77458534698. Waiting on the guard and plate but my tankbag is ready for pickup.



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had 72 WR125, 77 DT175, 82 CB900F, 04 CRF250, 04 VFR, 08 R12GS/ current rides 2013 R1200GSW & 2010 Gas Gas Raga
wife had 96 Ninja, 04 Katana, 04 CBR600, 09 F650GS / current ride 2013 F700GS

Laguna Seca MotoGP Trips-06/07/08/09/10/11/12/13. 2014 Loop Trip-Glacier/Yellowstone/GTs/Flaming Gorge/Arches/Mesa Verda/Monuments/Goosenecks/Capitol Reef/Bryce/Zion/GC/Joshua/Yosemite/Lassen/Crater Lake
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Old 04-01-2013, 08:16 AM   #7829
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Racegun View Post
Maybe in some ways a great set of Ohlins or Wilburs etc, would be a bit of a compromise when compared to ESA. However when one compares STOCK to Wilbers or Ohlins ... you think you are riding an entirely different M/C
That's so true. I haven't tried the new dynamic ESA yet, but the stock suspension on the non-ESA is not a quality suspension. It's harsh, not compliant at all and has a hard time keeping the wheels where they should be on a crappy road (compared to the aftermarket suspension on my Tiger).

The old ESA was only marginally better. It is very handy to quickly adjust things, but it was adjusting from a soft and fairly shitty suspension to a hard and fairly shitty suspension. The new system better be a lot better than that.

On the old model, putting the money ESA costs toward an aftermarket suspension that is built for your weight and riding style made the bike much better. I did not do that on the GS, but rode one with front/rear Öhlins and it was a big difference - I was surprised how compliant a GS suspension could be when done properly.
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Old 04-01-2013, 08:44 AM   #7830
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Soooo I took a decent 30min or so demo last Saturday here in CT
and…… HOLY COW that thing is a beast!!
Getting on local highway I pushed a little (about 6k rpm/gear) and by the
time the ramp was over I was doing xxx mph, woow its fast.
The front feels light at speed (sort of like f800gs) but the wind protection is very ince and the
buffering is down to min. (much better than what I have on 1150), the pick up in 6th gear
is pure amazing but the seat is kind of stiff, no biggie.
Two exits later I found a local sort of twisty road (rt25) and woow again, it feels so great
on turns and all I want it to do is push it lower and go faster ( oh man where is the friggin dragon
when you need one), breaks on the dime and stable as hell, this thing is officially the most
well ballanced bike I’ve ever sat on.
This is a whole new ball game for GS and I’m very impressed, very.

Right now I have 2003 1150GSA (92k) and maybe sometime this end summer/fall I might be
upgrating to something new and for what it looks like it will be (I hope) the last 1200ADV
I love the new GS but its not my cup of tea, and maybe I’ll try again once they have ADV version.

Anyway
My 02 cents
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