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Old 04-01-2013, 08:59 PM   #7876
EJ_92606
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Was everyone in church all weekend or something? No new test ride reports and new bike deliveries? C'mon I need my fix of pictures and ride reports!
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Old 04-01-2013, 09:42 PM   #7877
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Originally Posted by johnjen View Post
So I have to ask…
How much time did you spend dialing in the Ohlins?

JJ
About 15 minutes. How much time dialing in the OEM; about 15 minutes. Ohlins said they gave me shocks that would be proper for my 180# weight and to turn the knob when carrying a pillion. How much time should I have spent?
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Old 04-01-2013, 09:45 PM   #7878
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Originally Posted by marchyman View Post
??? I have 4 adjustments on my Ohlins. I had 3 on the stock shocks.
I had ESA and other than selecting between "soft but bad", "normal but bad", "hard but bad" for the various load settings (that were all kind of not what I needed) there was no way of dialing in the suspension in ANY way. No way of setting compression / rebound independently, no way of setting pre-load just right for this rider, ...

My current bike has preload, compression, rebound all separately adjustable on front and rear and a spring rate selected for me. Quite nice when dialed in properly. A little overkill for most and not cheap (about the price of an ESA system), but I actually prefer that over an electronic suspension that will always be "just off" from what I want or need for my weight.

But I'm also very excited about the new dynamic ESA and I'm looking forward to testing it. Would be really cool if it were really that much better than the old ESA which was pretty much useless for me as it didn't matter what I set it, too, it was still a badly set up suspension.
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Old 04-01-2013, 09:59 PM   #7879
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I like the old ESA.
It's great being able to adjust preload from single rider to passenger/+luggage/Off-Road... with a press of one button, same with dampening. To me it worked just fine but I guess it depends what you need, there will always be better (probably never more expensive)
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Old 04-01-2013, 10:21 PM   #7880
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Originally Posted by tallguy-09 View Post
To me it worked just fine but I guess it depends what you need
I think it's really about whether it

a) fits your weight
b) makes sense for your riding style
c) goes along with expectations

Since I have ridden a properly dialed in aftermarket suspension, I'm not that happy with the OEM stuff anymore. Just gives a perspective ...
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Old 04-01-2013, 10:27 PM   #7881
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Not sure if this chart has been posted yet, explains the different riding modes.




Few pics from the weekend:






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Old 04-01-2013, 11:06 PM   #7882
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gun Smoke View Post
About 15 minutes. How much time dialing in the OEM; about 15 minutes. Ohlins said they gave me shocks that would be proper for my 180# weight and to turn the knob when carrying a pillion. How much time should I have spent?
Perhaps this will help answer your question.
Skip to page 23 for setup info.

http://advwisdom.hogranch.com/Wisdom/GSOIAv1.2.pdf

JJ
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Old 04-01-2013, 11:39 PM   #7883
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYDADVGS View Post
Not sure if this chart has been posted yet, explains the different riding modes.

Nice pics and thanks for the ride modes chart! So I've heard from some that the GPS blocks the top of the tach...did you find that to be an issue and how tall are you?
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Old 04-02-2013, 12:39 AM   #7884
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erkmania View Post
I think BMW now means "Built Mostly Worldwide."
I think 99.999% of manufactured consumer products out there are like that.

Hint: Even some that don't make ANY mention about that (even in stickers or hidden labels).

Quote:
Originally Posted by sbrownn View Post
And the next question might be "How much time did you spend dialing in the stock suspension?" My guess would be that people who never try to dial in the stock suspension never bother to dial in the aftermarkets either. At its core a suspension system is nothing more than a spring to store and release energy and an adjustable damper to control the rate at which energy is stored and relesed. It would be interesting to actually know what the difference is between some of the aftermarkets and the stock units is.
I understand what you want to say. Yet it is not entirely true.
Many (most?) people using stock suspension, don't even touch preload.
Many (most if not all) people going to custom suspension, do that EXACTLY to be able to touch anything they want.
They do it at least once when they install it after all (and possibly for the next few km).

So it is first a difference in the mentality and priorities between riders.

For me, not being a competition rider, it is enough if my suspension is OK for about my weight, is OK for my "mean" riding habbits and indeed tries to keep the wheels on the ground.
Rebound for me (again as a "casual" - but every-day - rider) is something I shouldn't bother because I EXPECT the suspension to have the rebound set already as needed for the mean of the parameters above. Preload that needs to vary more because of weight differences IS configurable. Rebound does follow a bit (and should - read the Physics behind it) as it varies depending on the (also variable with modern shocks) compression. Anyway this is a big discussion, that reminds me (ok a bit extreme example) the difference audiophiles find in DIGITAL sound between different cables. Or the nitrogen in tires discussion maybe... ahem.

I personally (again: PERSONALLY, based on my needs and priorities, so keep your fireball spells) find it stupid to have a manually micro tuned suspension when ALL riding parameters change constantly. I start my day on tarmac, I am a bit heavier today (and 10Kg heavier from when I bought the bike years ago) because I ate good breakfast and was in a rush so didn't get a chance to go (erm... you know), then two blocks away I find a friend that needs a lift towards where I am going and then back from work I decide to take a fire-road instead. No I cannot see myself tuning constantly for those parameters. D-ESA is the closest I will ever come to doing this, because partially it does it for me and partially I do it but by just pressing a button.

The only thing I need from my (whatever) suspension, except what was mentioned in the paragraphs above, is to keep doing its job the longest possible, without BOTHERING me with details or breaking up.
BTW my then-willingly-non-ESA 2007 GS did loose front shock oil when just one year old in an Enduro session... Replaced under warranty. What was fantastic though is that because of telelever the bike was actually ride-able for the 10 days I waited for the part - not even close to the bike limits but ride-able (a bike with DEAD front suspension) and I DID ride it daily (carefully) until the shock got replaced. Now that is BMW for me. For you BMW is something else, no problem.

Others love doing this manually or believing that some periodic tuning covers all their needs (or they indeed tune their suspension like 3-4 times a day before they change mode and mood). Well to its his own.

Another more general comment (not even GS or BMW specific): Technology is here to stay, whether you guys like it or not. Things that are innovation today, will be common place and even default (read: ABS and remember discussions 10 years ago - or 5) and even NOT available without in a few years. Sorry.
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Old 04-02-2013, 01:17 AM   #7885
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Here's a video I found from the press launch...wheelies and stoppies included

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Old 04-02-2013, 01:44 AM   #7886
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Just to stray away from the suspension flame war, a very nice vid from a test drive:

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Old 04-02-2013, 02:39 AM   #7887
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Originally Posted by EJ_92606 View Post
Nice pics and thanks for the ride modes chart! So I've heard from some that the GPS blocks the top of the tach...did you find that to be an issue and how tall are you?
I'm 6 foot tall, it does block the very top of the rev counter, but I must say, it's not an issue.
After a few minutes on the bike you get a feel for the rev range.

I don't ride a bike looking at the instruments, for me it's a feel thing.

Don't worry about it, you will be having too much fun riding the thing, it's awesome.
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Old 04-02-2013, 03:20 AM   #7888
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NLS View Post
I think 99.999% of manufactured consumer products out there are like that.

Hint: Even some that don't make ANY mention about that (even in stickers or hidden labels).



I understand what you want to say. Yet it is not entirely true.
Many (most?) people using stock suspension, don't even touch preload.
Many (most if not all) people going to custom suspension, do that EXACTLY to be able to touch anything they want.
They do it at least once when they install it after all (and possibly for the next few km).

So it is first a difference in the mentality and priorities between riders.

For me, not being a competition rider, it is enough if my suspension is OK for about my weight, is OK for my "mean" riding habbits and indeed tries to keep the wheels on the ground.
Rebound for me (again as a "casual" - but every-day - rider) is something I shouldn't bother because I EXPECT the suspension to have the rebound set already as needed for the mean of the parameters above. Preload that needs to vary more because of weight differences IS configurable. Rebound does follow a bit (and should - read the Physics behind it) as it varies depending on the (also variable with modern shocks) compression. Anyway this is a big discussion, that reminds me (ok a bit extreme example) the difference audiophiles find in DIGITAL sound between different cables. Or the nitrogen in tires discussion maybe... ahem.

I personally (again: PERSONALLY, based on my needs and priorities, so keep your fireball spells) find it stupid to have a manually micro tuned suspension when ALL riding parameters change constantly. I start my day on tarmac, I am a bit heavier today (and 10Kg heavier from when I bought the bike years ago) because I ate good breakfast and was in a rush so didn't get a chance to go (erm... you know), then two blocks away I find a friend that needs a lift towards where I am going and then back from work I decide to take a fire-road instead. No I cannot see myself tuning constantly for those parameters. D-ESA is the closest I will ever come to doing this, because partially it does it for me and partially I do it but by just pressing a button.

The only thing I need from my (whatever) suspension, except what was mentioned in the paragraphs above, is to keep doing its job the longest possible, without BOTHERING me with details or breaking up.
BTW my then-willingly-non-ESA 2007 GS did loose front shock oil when just one year old in an Enduro session... Replaced under warranty. What was fantastic though is that because of telelever the bike was actually ride-able for the 10 days I waited for the part - not even close to the bike limits but ride-able (a bike with DEAD front suspension) and I DID ride it daily (carefully) until the shock got replaced. Now that is BMW for me. For you BMW is something else, no problem.

Others love doing this manually or believing that some periodic tuning covers all their needs (or they indeed tune their suspension like 3-4 times a day before they change mode and mood). Well to its his own.

Another more general comment (not even GS or BMW specific): Technology is here to stay, whether you guys like it or not. Things that are innovation today, will be common place and even default (read: ABS and remember discussions 10 years ago - or 5) and even NOT available without in a few years. Sorry.
I agree with you.

I have never really understood why people are willing to pay small fortunes for suspension with manual adjustment. The argument is that you can fine tune it for a specific application including load, tires, road surface and road condition. This seams to be a great idea if you want to optimize your GS for a track day event but that is not what the GS design is intended for. What do you then do when you go from tarmac to gravel road? Do you stop and spend time manually adjusting your suspension? I find that BMW Motorrad have made the new 1200GS LC even more versatile with the new dynamic ESA for those of us that just want to press a button in order to change suspension setup. I for sure don't want to stop and spend time adjusting a manual suspension system. The dynamic ESA may not be perfect but it is a lot better then a simple non-adjustable suspension system. You may be concerned with the longevity of these new electronic systems but I am not more concerned by this than I am with the ABS-system. I haven't seen anyone deselect the ABS-system because they were too concerned by the cost of replacing ABS on a high milage bike.

Why not just buy a real track day bike like the S1000RR or some thing similar? If you are into hard-core off-roading then you will be better of with a KTM 450 or the like.

I do not understand why some people buy a GS and then they spend a fortune changing suspension and other expensive parts like: seat, windscreen, spoke wheels, handlebars, exhaust, foot pegs, break discs and pads, and you can go on and on and on. Is it because you don't know what to do with your money? Maybe spend some money taking time off from work and ride your GS instead.

If this isn't enough then some people buy half the Touratech catalog and hang a shit load of laser cut "protection" stuff on their GS and make it even heavier than a fat pig. Sure that is going to do a lot for better handling and riding dynamics! Now the GS is so heavy that you don't feel comfortable taking it off-road and then what is then the point of all that "protection" stuff? One thing is sure and that is that the people at Touratech are laughing their ass off after they have sold you a lot of totally overpriced junk (go back a few pages and see photos of the weldings they are able to make). Sure, I am not a big fan of farkles and I have only taken it as far as a set of foot pegs from Wunderlich on my bikes.

Bottom line is: Take the GS for what it is and be realistic and don't try to force it into something that it isn't and has never been intended for. Spend your money on gas and get out there on the twisty roads and enjoy your GS.

You may disagree and that is fine. I don't intend to try to convince you that I am right and they you are wrong because there is no such thing. However, I still don't understand and I have no intension of ever being able to understand some of you.

Max :-)

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Old 04-02-2013, 03:23 AM   #7889
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYDADVGS View Post
I'm 6 foot tall, it does block the very top of the rev counter, but I must say, it's not an issue.
After a few minutes on the bike you get a feel for the rev range.

I don't ride a bike looking at the instruments, for me it's a feel thing.

Don't worry about it, you will be having too much fun riding the thing, it's awesome.
Totally agree. Don't look at the rev range, look at the road. Engine will automatically cut out when you get into the red rev zone.

Max :-)
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Old 04-02-2013, 03:37 AM   #7890
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Originally Posted by MaxReving View Post
Totally agree. Don't look at the rev range, look at the road. Engine will automatically cut out when you get into the red rev zone.

Max :-)
Why would you red line this bike, let alone bounce it off the limiter.... .
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