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Old 04-02-2013, 04:02 AM   #7891
grahamspc
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Totally agree with NLS and Max on suspension...had ESA on 09 GS and now on 2012 GS...it works for me...pretty much set it and forget it...ride almost daily and almost always on tarmac...lots of twisties....doing errands set it on Comfort....working a little harder in twisty stuff...set it on Sport...bottom line..it works for me(incidently had Ohlins on a Ducati a couple of years ago..that worked for me too).
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Old 04-02-2013, 04:07 AM   #7892
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Originally Posted by EJ_92606 View Post
Was everyone in church all weekend or something? No new test ride reports and new bike deliveries? C'mon I need my fix of pictures and ride reports!
I've been riding for most of the weekend. But not on my GS

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Old 04-02-2013, 04:17 AM   #7893
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Originally Posted by SYDADVGS View Post
Why would you red line this bike, let alone bounce it off the limiter.... .
Exactely. I would never red line my GS but that is often the argument you hear from people that don't like then fact that it can be hard to see the rev range. I never look at the rev range, I use the feel for revs. What makes the new GS fast is not the revs but the torque (my view).

Max :-)
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Old 04-02-2013, 04:21 AM   #7894
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Originally Posted by SYDADVGS View Post

Few pics from the weekend:
You've got a beautiful riding region. Way less boring than here. Nice unpaved roads here are rare.
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Old 04-02-2013, 04:24 AM   #7895
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Originally Posted by MaxReving View Post
Exactely. I would never red line my GS but that is often the argument you hear from people that don't like then fact that it can be hard to see the rev range. I never look at the rev range, I use the feel for revs. What makes the new GS fast is not the revs but the torque (my view).

Max :-)
I look at my revcounter all of the time. Still running it in and getting the feel for it. Besides, I am still running it in and try and keep it under 5K . But my feeling ATM is that the sweet zone is from 3K to ??? But I don't see why you need to take it over 6K cause there is plenty of torque on tap.
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Old 04-02-2013, 04:31 AM   #7896
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Originally Posted by MaxReving View Post
Exactely. I would never red line my GS but that is often the argument you hear from people that don't like then fact that it can be hard to see the rev range. I never look at the rev range, I use the feel for revs. What makes the new GS fast is not the revs but the torque (my view).

Max :-)
Torque all the way for me, never redlined any of my GSs - just no point and shows no sympathy for the engine
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Old 04-02-2013, 04:50 AM   #7897
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I only red-line sixth gear.

Although I shouldn't probably be as harsh as Max (someone managed to be harsher than me? This is new...), as I understand some "easy fixes" for any new vehicle to fit your tastes a bit more (and make it "unique" for you), yet indeed with GS (and HD... a comparison that BY ITSELF sucks that I even have to mention) some people go tooooo far ("loosing the point" far I mean).

That said, it's their wallet and their ride.
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Old 04-02-2013, 05:21 AM   #7898
kindofblue
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Nice looking Trek. And a hard tail at that. How much does it weigh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by IB1 View Post
I've been riding for most of the weekend. But not on my GS

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Old 04-02-2013, 05:31 AM   #7899
Deans BMW
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Originally Posted by SYDADVGS View Post
Why would you red line this bike, let alone bounce it off the limiter.... .
Well you don't if you ride like a little old lady and never get the rings seated properly and miss all the fun the bike has to offer.
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Old 04-02-2013, 06:42 AM   #7900
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Originally Posted by SYDADVGS View Post
Not sure if this chart has been posted yet, explains the different riding modes.




Few pics from the weekend:






After reading that chart, I am glad that I went for the simplest option, just bog standard front and rear shocks
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Old 04-02-2013, 06:59 AM   #7901
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Originally Posted by UK_Engineer View Post
After reading that chart, I am glad that I went for the simplest option, just bog standard front and rear shocks
Not really curious personally, but maybe you want to explain that?
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Old 04-02-2013, 07:00 AM   #7902
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Originally Posted by Deans BMW View Post
Well you don't if you ride like a little old lady and never get the rings seated properly and miss all the fun the bike has to offer.
You are either joking or ignoring the facts. Take a look at the two pictures below. Red line starts at 9.000 rpm and then compare it with the power and torque figures in the other picture (R1200GS LC is the light blue lines).

125 hp @ 7.700 rpm
125 Nm @ 6.500 rpm

What makes it more fun to take the engine over 9.000 rpm ? (in that range it has lost power and torque !! )

Max :-)

Source: BMW Motorrad Press Kit



Source: Motorrad (German magazine)


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Old 04-02-2013, 07:25 AM   #7903
sbrownn
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Originally Posted by NLS View Post
I think 99.999% of manufactured consumer products out there are like that.

Hint: Even some that don't make ANY mention about that (even in stickers or hidden labels).



I understand what you want to say. Yet it is not entirely true.
Many (most?) people using stock suspension, don't even touch preload.
Many (most if not all) people going to custom suspension, do that EXACTLY to be able to touch anything they want.
They do it at least once when they install it after all (and possibly for the next few km).

So it is first a difference in the mentality and priorities between riders.

For me, not being a competition rider, it is enough if my suspension is OK for about my weight, is OK for my "mean" riding habbits and indeed tries to keep the wheels on the ground.
Rebound for me (again as a "casual" - but every-day - rider) is something I shouldn't bother because I EXPECT the suspension to have the rebound set already as needed for the mean of the parameters above. Preload that needs to vary more because of weight differences IS configurable. Rebound does follow a bit (and should - read the Physics behind it) as it varies depending on the (also variable with modern shocks) compression. Anyway this is a big discussion, that reminds me (ok a bit extreme example) the difference audiophiles find in DIGITAL sound between different cables. Or the nitrogen in tires discussion maybe... ahem.

I personally (again: PERSONALLY, based on my needs and priorities, so keep your fireball spells) find it stupid to have a manually micro tuned suspension when ALL riding parameters change constantly. I start my day on tarmac, I am a bit heavier today (and 10Kg heavier from when I bought the bike years ago) because I ate good breakfast and was in a rush so didn't get a chance to go (erm... you know), then two blocks away I find a friend that needs a lift towards where I am going and then back from work I decide to take a fire-road instead. No I cannot see myself tuning constantly for those parameters. D-ESA is the closest I will ever come to doing this, because partially it does it for me and partially I do it but by just pressing a button.

The only thing I need from my (whatever) suspension, except what was mentioned in the paragraphs above, is to keep doing its job the longest possible, without BOTHERING me with details or breaking up.
BTW my then-willingly-non-ESA 2007 GS did loose front shock oil when just one year old in an Enduro session... Replaced under warranty. What was fantastic though is that because of telelever the bike was actually ride-able for the 10 days I waited for the part - not even close to the bike limits but ride-able (a bike with DEAD front suspension) and I DID ride it daily (carefully) until the shock got replaced. Now that is BMW for me. For you BMW is something else, no problem.

Others love doing this manually or believing that some periodic tuning covers all their needs (or they indeed tune their suspension like 3-4 times a day before they change mode and mood). Well to its his own.

Another more general comment (not even GS or BMW specific): Technology is here to stay, whether you guys like it or not. Things that are innovation today, will be common place and even default (read: ABS and remember discussions 10 years ago - or 5) and even NOT available without in a few years. Sorry.
You don't have to micro tune to be able to take advantage of adjustable suspension and my guess would be that most people do make use of the preload either to set their initial sag and to compensate for either luggage or a passenger. Neither do you have to adjust your suspension all of the time but there is a benefit in being able to initially adjust for your weight, riding style and average road conditions.

Probably the biggest disadvantage with stock suspension is the inability to adjust the spring rate. When people purchase aftermarket suspension systems they can get a spring rate that is specifically suited to their weight instead of the one size fits all stock spring. Part of the reason riders are so pleased when they fit a aftermarket suspension system is that they finally have a set up in which the spring rate is customized to fit them. I am looking forward to getting my new bike with ESA but I also know that for my weight (150 lbs) the spring rate will probably be totally wrong and all the ESA in the world won't change that... but it will help.
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Old 04-02-2013, 07:44 AM   #7904
NLS
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Originally Posted by sbrownn View Post
You don't have to micro tune to be able to take advantage of adjustable suspension and my guess would be that most people do make use of the preload either to set their initial sag and to compensate for either luggage or a passenger. Neither do you have to adjust your suspension all of the time but there is a benefit in being able to initially adjust for your weight, riding style and average road conditions.

Probably the biggest disadvantage with stock suspension is the inability to adjust the spring rate. When people purchase aftermarket suspension systems they can get a spring rate that is specifically suited to their weight instead of the one size fits all stock spring. Part of the reason riders are so pleased when they fit a aftermarket suspension system is that they finally have a set up in which the spring rate is customized to fit them. I am looking forward to getting my new bike with ESA but I also know that for my weight (150 lbs) the spring rate will probably be totally wrong and all the ESA in the world won't change that... but it will help.
Still fail to see this.
Why:
The stock suspension is indeed set for a "mean" weight (which btw I think you are very close to), but also needs to compensate for possible luggage and/or passenger.
Same with a custom suspension... oups!
D-ESA does this with specific presets, plus some "auto" tuning (which I suspect is more mechanic than electronic though).
Non-ESA does this only for preload (still WAY better than nothing).

Again, to me a super expensive suspension, custom made to weight (and preference), is only valid for people mostly riding in a single "mode" and "mood". Whatever changes, they either need to modify settings OR... they are out of the custom suspension manufacturing specs.
Changes include riding style, rider weight (*), luggage, passenger, surface type etc. Even suspension itself "getting old", is a change to be compensated (except if you guys ride for a living so it makes sense to rebuild your suspension every few rounds... erm... months).

* I mention rider weight by itself as something changing, because according to you, a generic suspension made for a mean of 80Kg is... different from a custom suspension made for a guy like you 70Kg... OK. Let's accept this (and this indeed DOES make sense for Valentino Rossi). So if you actually gain weight, the suspension you paid 2K is no longer for you? This is what you say? What happens if your luggage is 10Kg? (EASY) Do you include that in your custom order calculation? What happens if you don't ride with the luggage then?

You see where I am going?

Anyway as I said from the start, to its his own.
We don't have to like the same things. Also I don't see a universal truth in this discussion.
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Old 04-02-2013, 08:08 AM   #7905
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You see where I am going?
You would be completely correct if a manufacturer for about the second or third time in history put in a suspension with proper spring rates for the "mean" rider and gets the damping right.

You might not notice or not care or not have a really good suspension to compare to, but that doesn't make it any better or worse. It's just that you "don't see it" while others do. What you seem to do though is saying that others are wrong in not being happy with the suspension quality delivered by BMW. I think that's where the disconnect is.

But never mind. It's different for different people and some will say the suspension is great and others will say the suspension is crap and both will be correct from their point of view.
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