ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > GSpot > GS Boxers
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 04-02-2013, 11:02 PM   #7966
EJ_92606
Rider
 
EJ_92606's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2007
Oddometer: 1,767
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moronic View Post
Motorrad has posted online an article comparing the waterboxer with the 2012 GS, reporting on a side-by-side ride and various performance and static measurements.

Article begins here, with the ride report. For those who do not read German, Google Translate will help.

There is a measurements page here, which includes dyno curves.

A couple of interesting results:

- measured full-tank weights old and new were identical at 246kg (542lbs).

- the new model was quicker in all single-gear roll-on acceleration tests (e.g. 100-140km/h 3.8 sec v 4.2 sec).

- fuel economy was slightly better on the new model (by 0.2L/100km or US 2mpg).
Thanks for posting...the Google translate is not so great, but I can at least comprehend parts of it and the stats of course. Was surprised that the 0-100km/h speed was only faster than the camhead by 0.1 seconds. During the test ride the bike felt much faster than that, but then again I suspect the massive thrust that is felt is based on some artificial throttle mapping as opposed to a substantial increase in power. The Motorrad test seems to confirm this.
EJ_92606 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2013, 11:11 PM   #7967
cug
--
 
Joined: May 2009
Location: Sunny California
Oddometer: 4,683
What I found more interesting is that the braking distance from 100km/h (62mph) was longer on the new model. Only in Enduro mode it got kind of close. New one is said to be more stable while braking, but needs longer distance.
cug is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2013, 11:53 PM   #7968
GrahamD
Beastly Adventurer
 
GrahamD's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2009
Location: Blue Mnts Ozstralia
Oddometer: 4,926
Quote:
Originally Posted by cug View Post
What I found more interesting is that the braking distance from 100km/h (62mph) was longer on the new model. Only in Enduro mode it got kind of close. New one is said to be more stable while braking, but needs longer distance.
Yes, just like the Tenere, Strom, etc. Less freak but a low speed impact at the end. Pros and Cons. Swings and roundabouts. Like to see an update of Motorrads ABS tests with the new gen ABS systems. But you knew that already.

Probably better off road than the older system if the S10 is anything to go by.
__________________
"It's better to ride a boring bike than push an interesting one" ... Canuman

"I just may as well admit that my other bikes are toast. I don't ride them. Plain and simple. I didn't want this. It wasn't the plan." - snakebitten
GrahamD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2013, 12:23 AM   #7969
EJ_92606
Rider
 
EJ_92606's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2007
Oddometer: 1,767
Quote:
Originally Posted by cug View Post
What I found more interesting is that the braking distance from 100km/h (62mph) was longer on the new model. Only in Enduro mode it got kind of close. New one is said to be more stable while braking, but needs longer distance.
and despite the larger contact patch of the bigger tires....looks like 9% longer stopping distance on asphalt with sand surface and 2.3% worse on asphalt.

EJ_92606 screwed with this post 04-03-2013 at 12:29 AM
EJ_92606 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2013, 12:45 AM   #7970
NLS
My bike needs washing...
 
NLS's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2004
Location: GREECE!
Oddometer: 2,876
Quote:
Originally Posted by wildy View Post
Nobody on a forum ever changes their minds and loses an argument.
A wise statement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedLeg View Post
throttle is touchy in dynamic mode.
As it should be. I am sure they'll fine-tune it with future software updates though.

BTW love the avatar...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Japanviking View Post
I am also very interested in getting other springs. If the new ESA system is rebuild able and can be sprung for my weight it would be really good it think.
Wouldn't this mess with what the software expects?
__________________
NLS
My Blog
When the going gets tough, the tough get going...
NLS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2013, 02:08 AM   #7971
fennel
Adventurer
 
fennel's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2007
Oddometer: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by EJ_92606 View Post
Good point...are we talking about the plastic GPS bracket being moved up or what appears to be a black metal bar that supports the GPS bracket being moved up? I assumed he was talking about the metal bar but now that you mention it, it's not clear.
The metal bar has two bolts at the inner sides of the beak.

Sent from my GT-P7500 using Tapatalk HD
fennel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2013, 02:32 AM   #7972
NLS
My bike needs washing...
 
NLS's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2004
Location: GREECE!
Oddometer: 2,876
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moronic View Post
Motorrad has posted online an article comparing the waterboxer with the 2012 GS, reporting on a side-by-side ride and various performance and static measurements.
Very interesting, thank you.
(btw below you will realize that I don't work for BMW - as some people seem to hate I defend the new model all the time)

Things I find interesting:

- Worse braking performance. Not in a critical level (as you said, where the '12 stops, the '13 makes a low speed bump), but this is a definite NEGATIVE to me. Hope they can improve with software, as (shown by enduro mode) the physical part is definitely able to perform at least same as previous version.

- Reports seem to agree that HP is spot-on and plus (whereas most vendors inc. BMW cheat). Good for people that care in such numbers.

- Speedometer seems to cheat a bit more. Not good. The difference @100Km is the difference I get at top speed.

- Real v-max not impressive. They could do much better. I will say again: 6th should be longer or consumer bike vendors should start thinking about 7th gear (overdrive with slow "pick up" for bikes like GS, "real" for bikes like S1000RR).

- Strange that dynamic mode (hope they indeed tested dynamic mode) can just chop 0.1sec over the last version. I would expect closer to 0.2-0.3.

- Seeing side-by-side photos, new bike indeed shows more fresh.

- The test verifies what everybody seems to fail to understand. New version is about same price. Extras are more. You want them I know, you don't HAVE to get them though.

So to sum up. Motorrad seems to find new GS as a "revolution" over previous.
Mechanically this is definitely true.
In practice I would say "evolution" is as far as you can go.

Given the differences and similarities, we definitely have a GS here. The new bike looks cool (way more cool than last), will perform better in real-life (rolling accelleration, ability to turn and follow terrain) both on and off tarmac.
We definitely already see what can be further improved for first face-lift in 2-3 years.
__________________
NLS
My Blog
When the going gets tough, the tough get going...
NLS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2013, 03:04 AM   #7973
mkletecka
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Oct 2008
Location: dana point, ca.
Oddometer: 286
How does the new WC corner/handle compared to AC

My only question is this. Does the new WC handle any better through the canyons than the previous AC (I'm talking about fully leaned over, scraping parts/no chicken stripes compared to the previous AC). If none have done this with their new WC's, no need to reply to my question.

BTW, I think the new WC looks great, has a lot of new goodies etc. and for those who got one, congratulations!!!!!!!!!!!!
mkletecka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2013, 03:51 AM   #7974
Japanviking
Adventurer
 
Joined: Jan 2007
Oddometer: 80
Yes it handles better when ridden aggressively. Turns in quicker and I thought it felt very stable leaned over.
__________________
BMW S1000RR -12
BMW R1200GS -13
Japanviking is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2013, 04:01 AM   #7975
NLS
My bike needs washing...
 
NLS's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2004
Location: GREECE!
Oddometer: 2,876
Quote:
Originally Posted by Japanviking View Post
Yes it handles better when ridden aggressively. Turns in quicker and I thought it felt very stable leaned over.
Yes but have you tested and compared the two models THROUGH THE CANYONS? Because else you shouldn't reply.
__________________
NLS
My Blog
When the going gets tough, the tough get going...
NLS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2013, 04:24 AM   #7976
MaxReving
Gnarly Adventurer
 
MaxReving's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: On The Twisty Roads
Oddometer: 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkletecka View Post
My only question is this. Does the new WC handle any better through the canyons than the previous AC (I'm talking about fully leaned over, scraping parts/no chicken stripes compared to the previous AC). If none have done this with their new WC's, no need to reply to my question.

BTW, I think the new WC looks great, has a lot of new goodies etc. and for those who got one, congratulations!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yes

MaxReving is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2013, 05:02 AM   #7977
oz97tj
Studly Adventurer
 
oz97tj's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2012
Location: Fenton, MI
Oddometer: 811
Quote:
Originally Posted by NLS View Post
Yes but have you tested and compared the two models THROUGH THE CANYONS? Because else you shouldn't reply.
Im glad im not the only one who laughed at the arrogance in that statement.
__________________
'13 BMW 1200 GSW
'05 Honda ST1300
oz97tj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2013, 05:03 AM   #7978
MaxReving
Gnarly Adventurer
 
MaxReving's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: On The Twisty Roads
Oddometer: 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by NLS View Post
Very interesting, thank you.
(btw below you will realize that I don't work for BMW - as some people seem to hate I defend the new model all the time)

Things I find interesting:

- Worse braking performance. Not in a critical level (as you said, where the '12 stops, the '13 makes a low speed bump), but this is a definite NEGATIVE to me. Hope they can improve with software, as (shown by enduro mode) the physical part is definitely able to perform at least same as previous version. Bikes were on different tires Metzeler Tourance Next and Metzeler Tourance EXP

- Reports seem to agree that HP is spot-on and plus (whereas most vendors inc. BMW cheat). Good for people that care in such numbers.

- Speedometer seems to cheat a bit more. Not good. The difference @100Km is the difference I get at top speed. Calibration is often different from bike to bike

- Real v-max not impressive. They could do much better. I will say again: 6th should be longer or consumer bike vendors should start thinking about 7th gear (overdrive with slow "pick up" for bikes like GS, "real" for bikes like S1000RR).

- Strange that dynamic mode (hope they indeed tested dynamic mode) can just chop 0.1sec over the last version. I would expect closer to 0.2-0.3. Well, 0.3 sec would almost be 8-9% faster and that may be a bit optimistic when you compare the torque figures

- Seeing side-by-side photos, new bike indeed shows more fresh.

- The test verifies what everybody seems to fail to understand. New version is about same price. Extras are more. You want them I know, you don't HAVE to get them though.

So to sum up. Motorrad seems to find new GS as a "revolution" over previous.
Mechanically this is definitely true.
In practice I would say "evolution" is as far as you can go.

Given the differences and similarities, we definitely have a GS here. The new bike looks cool (way more cool than last), will perform better in real-life (rolling accelleration, ability to turn and follow terrain) both on and off tarmac.
We definitely already see what can be further improved for first face-lift in 2-3 years.
Ahhh, this type of side-by-side test is always a bit tricky. I have a few questions for the people at the magazine "Motorrad":

Regarding performance. Did both bikes run on the same fuel? The new 1200GS LC can handle octane 95 but the camhead have been known to be better of with octane 98. They also write that in the review. Both bikes have to be tested with octane 98.

Breaks. The new 1200GS LC was fitted with the new Metzeler Tourance Next and the camhead with the Metzeler Tourance EXP. Tons of tests shows that different tires have different breaking distances. How would the figures look if both bikes were on the same tire (but different size of cause) ?

How are the breaking tests done and how have you measured the acceleration figures? Number of times the breaking and acceleration test was done. Are the figures the best out of a number of tests or is it average figures? Was it the same rider on both bikes? Details are missing.

Engine performance illustrated by the torque and power curves have been made on a dyno, so those figures should be comparable. However, I will like to know what the milage were on both bikes when they were tested.

However, if you add up all the figures in this test then you will see that the new 1200GS LC is 3.2674% better than the camhead, including the seat which alone is 5.3863% better

Max :-)
MaxReving is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2013, 05:21 AM   #7979
MaxReving
Gnarly Adventurer
 
MaxReving's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: On The Twisty Roads
Oddometer: 182
MCN vid



Max :-)
MaxReving is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2013, 05:26 AM   #7980
NLS
My bike needs washing...
 
NLS's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2004
Location: GREECE!
Oddometer: 2,876
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxReving View Post
...
Good points all.
Especially about tires, they COULD (and should) use Next on both bikes.
(Next is already available in "old" GS sizes - I've seen it in tire shops)

Only objection about the fuel.
'13 GS manual specifically mentions 95 octane fuel. There is no mention of being better with 98.
In contrast, '12 GS requires 98 octane and 95 octane limits its capabilities. This is because of the different engine characteristics in latest oilhead model (DOHC etc.).

(also to mention, OLDER 12GS models - like mine, again specified 95 octane fuel except that of course they could handle lower and higher octanes because of the knock sensor)

So they should compare (as they should I think) both with the "factory suggested" fuel.
__________________
NLS
My Blog
When the going gets tough, the tough get going...
NLS is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 01:58 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014