ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > GSpot > GS Boxers
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 06-02-2013, 11:15 AM   #9241
Racegun
Single Track Mind!
 
Racegun's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2005
Location: 40ft above sea level
Oddometer: 2,547
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emoto View Post
Q: How many ADVRiders does it take to ride a new R1200GS-W?


A: Three - One to ride it, and two to complain about how much better the old one was.


That is funny. However me, I am not complaining at all. Merely an informed observation after being a wrench since 1978.
NWPA... yes water cooling is better for engines that need it. One must however look at the entire picture because the parts that make up said picture are involved and detailed.

Why would one want to water cool an ICE? Because it needs it!
Did the R11XX to R12 need it?... maybe on a vary rare occasion. Why do I say that? Look at the people who ride these bikes. Some have over 400,000 miles! Many have over 100,000. No ICE will last 60,000 to 100,000 if it had cooling problems. With out question the Boxer engine is the ultimate iteration of an Air/oil cooled power plant. Water cooling allows the engine to produce more power. In fact it was always stated that unless a boxer was water cooled then horse power in the 125 range would not be doable ( and expect the engine to last).

I read the History of MAx Fritz's engine design and reasoning. Those parameters have not changed all these years later! And they never will.
OTOH, will men ask more from their machine ever increasingly. That is human nature. To that end, design changes are made...in fact to a large degree.

The other part of engine cooling, power production and ultimate engine life relates to lubrication. Over the years incredible strides have been achieved in that art. That is why so many ICE's both car and bike have over 100,000 miles. Some one once figured how many times a piston travels in a steel tube to cover 100,000 miles. It is amazing they last even 20,000 miles! With out question Engine designers are brilliant.
So yes water cooling has its place. But so does air or air/oil. I have always like the minimalistic approach that a two wheel conveyance offers. Like I said before. I built a motor powered bicycle back in 9th grade. Heck I had as much fun with that as any modern day M/C.
__________________
Cheers!
Dave
Racegun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2013, 11:54 AM   #9242
Hambonee
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Hambonee's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2011
Location: Western Washington
Oddometer: 176
Call me out if I am wrong here..

The change to liquid cooling had little to do with extending engine life or needing to squeeze out a few more HP..but rather for emissions standards...

I know there has been talk in Moto Guzzi forums dreading the day soon to come when they go liquid cooled..

as mentioned...I think the changes had little to do with the German's having a flight of fancy as regulation changes over the years....

Guzzis are notoriously hard to get into Germany due to these I hear....
Hambonee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2013, 12:09 PM   #9243
Racegun
Single Track Mind!
 
Racegun's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2005
Location: 40ft above sea level
Oddometer: 2,547
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hambonee View Post
Call me out if I am wrong here..

The change to liquid cooling had little to do with extending engine life or needing to squeeze out a few more HP..but rather for emissions standards...

I know there has been talk in Moto Guzzi forums dreading the day soon to come when they go liquid cooled..

as mentioned...I think the changes had little to do with the German's having a flight of fancy as regulation changes over the years....

Guzzis are notoriously hard to get into Germany due to these I hear....
I bet that is a good possibility! Yet in the large scheme of things I do not understand doing that for emissions! Lets face it, the amount of "pollution" that all of the motorcycles in world emit, is way less than all the Cows, horses, Elephants, Dogs, Cats, Lions, Tigers, Bears, Raccoons, Humans that eat beans, etc produce!!!!! Maybe they are bowing to the pressure from Al ( asshole) Gore and the green man group. SILLY...PLAIN OLE SILLY!

I am guessing that they did the W/C for many reasons.
__________________
Cheers!
Dave
Racegun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2013, 12:12 PM   #9244
Anorak
Woolf Barnato
 
Anorak's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2004
Location: OAK
Oddometer: 33,372
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racegun View Post
I bet that is a good possibility! Yet in the large scheme of things I do not understand doing that for emissions! Lets face it, the amount of "pollution" that all of the motorcycles in world emit, is way less than all the Cows, horses, Elephants, Dogs, Cats, Lions, Tigers, Bears, Raccoons, Humans that eat beans, etc produce!!!!! Maybe they are bowing to the pressure from Al ( asshole) Gore and the green man group. SILLY...PLAIN OLE SILLY!

I am guessing that they did the W/C for many reasons.
You are a terminal fool.
__________________
'Gonna get me a six pack...push people off the highway!'

"they live off the carrion of our mutual distrust and bribe us with symbols that equate hatred with manhood."

"I mean at the end of the day, I was addicted to Starting Fluid for Christ's sake!"

"Yeah, that guy sure is terrible at touching moms"
Anorak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2013, 12:45 PM   #9245
Marki_GSA
Studly Adventurer
 
Joined: Sep 2011
Location: Scotland
Oddometer: 504
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racegun View Post
I bet that is a good possibility! Yet in the large scheme of things I do not understand doing that for emissions! Lets face it, the amount of "pollution" that all of the motorcycles in world emit, is way less than all the Cows, horses, Elephants, Dogs, Cats, Lions, Tigers, Bears, Raccoons, Humans that eat beans, etc produce!!!!! Maybe they are bowing to the pressure from Al ( asshole) Gore and the green man group. SILLY...PLAIN OLE SILLY!

I am guessing that they did the W/C for many reasons.
The EU has decided that motorcycles MUST meet euro 5 in a few years time. They currently only have to meet euro 3 so quite a jump. BMW are a little ahead of the game but very shortly the boxer would have been legislated out of existence in Europe. It probably won't stop here and no doubt there will be euro 6 and 7 and before you know it everything on the road will need a battery up it ass or it will be banned.
Oh and before anybody chips in with BMW have already stated they could have got the old engine to pass euro 5. You are correct but what they didn't say was in what state the engine would have been in. Like it or not, this had to happen because of legislation makers and tree huggers.
Personally I don't think it's a bad thing but there you go, we can all have opinions.
Marki_GSA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2013, 12:54 PM   #9246
Racegun
Single Track Mind!
 
Racegun's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2005
Location: 40ft above sea level
Oddometer: 2,547
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anorak View Post
You are a terminal fool.
Why thank you....and BTW that tells me a great deal about you!

I am so sorry you are .......well.........lost
__________________
Cheers!
Dave
Racegun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2013, 01:00 PM   #9247
Racegun
Single Track Mind!
 
Racegun's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2005
Location: 40ft above sea level
Oddometer: 2,547
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marki_GSA View Post
The EU has decided that motorcycles MUST meet euro 5 in a few years time. They currently only have to meet euro 3 so quite a jump. BMW are a little ahead of the game but very shortly the boxer would have been legislated out of existence in Europe. It probably won't stop here and no doubt there will be euro 6 and 7 and before you know it everything on the road will need a battery up it ass or it will be banned.
Oh and before anybody chips in with BMW have already stated they could have got the old engine to pass euro 5. You are correct but what they didn't say was in what state the engine would have been in. Like it or not, this had to happen because of legislation makers and tree huggers.
Personally I don't think it's a bad thing but there you go, we can all have opinions.
Mark.... and how is the EU doing? Not to good from what I hear! So the results of their efforts speak to the efficacy of their efforts, ideals, and misguided ways. And yes things are not that good on this side of the pond and only getting worse at this point in time.

There is nothing wrong with trying to "DO RIGHT" by the planet. BUT "possum-on-a-gumbush", do they have to get so damn radical. Besides all of those who want a "more green" approach, are them selves FOORKEN hypocrites!
__________________
Cheers!
Dave

Racegun screwed with this post 06-02-2013 at 01:06 PM Reason: add correction
Racegun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2013, 01:07 PM   #9248
Anorak
Woolf Barnato
 
Anorak's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2004
Location: OAK
Oddometer: 33,372
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racegun View Post
Why thank you....and BTW that tells me a great deal about you!

I am so sorry you are .......well.........lost
Your post is full of gibberish and coming from someone who makes elaborate claims of great mechanical prowess it is even more absurd. The piece de resistance is your completely gratuitous reference to Al Gore. From your barely literate "contributions" to threads, you give the impression of someone who actually doesn't know anything about almost everything.

Motor vehicles run better and last longer than they ever have.
__________________
'Gonna get me a six pack...push people off the highway!'

"they live off the carrion of our mutual distrust and bribe us with symbols that equate hatred with manhood."

"I mean at the end of the day, I was addicted to Starting Fluid for Christ's sake!"

"Yeah, that guy sure is terrible at touching moms"
Anorak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2013, 01:10 PM   #9249
Hambonee
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Hambonee's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2011
Location: Western Washington
Oddometer: 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racegun View Post
Mark.... and how is the EU doing? Not to good from what I hear! So the results of their efforts speak to the efficacy of their efforts, ideals, and misguided ways. And yes things are not that good on this side of the pond and only getting worse at this point in time.

There is nothing wrong with trying to "DO RIGHT" by the planet. BUT "possum-on-a-gumbush", do they have to get so damn radical. Besides all of those who want a "more green" approach, are them selves FOORKEN hypocrites!
WTF

So now it is bash the EU time?

If you have not noticed engine technology advances and the dinosaurs that are the old air coolers are eventually going to bite the dust...regulation or not..

This has happened with everything...yes, maybe EU regulation sped it up a bit but like Guzzi, resting on a decades old engine design eventually costs ya...and I can tell you..the new engine is a gem...

either way..different strokes for different folks but you drifting a bit off topic and political for a GS forum are you not?
Hambonee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2013, 01:12 PM   #9250
VolInGA
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: Atlanta, GA
Oddometer: 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racegun View Post
I bet that is a good possibility! Yet in the large scheme of things I do not understand doing that for emissions! Lets face it, the amount of "pollution" that all of the motorcycles in world emit, is way less than all the Cows, horses, Elephants, Dogs, Cats, Lions, Tigers, Bears, Raccoons, Humans that eat beans, etc produce!!!!! Maybe they are bowing to the pressure from Al ( asshole) Gore and the green man group. SILLY...PLAIN OLE SILLY!

I am guessing that they did the W/C for many reasons.
Main reason is emissions, and its not just the EU. U.S. regs are changing for 2015. You will see changes on motorcycles to ATVs, all in the name of lower emissions, and in some cases the U.S. standard will be tougher for manufacturers to meet than the EU spec. Truth of the matter is motorcycles emit more pollution per mile than today's cars, there are just fewer on the road in the U.S., so the net effect is less.

For the record, I'm not a greenie. Hate Al Gore and everything he stands for (and ashamed he is from my home state of TN). Completely disagree with Anorak.
VolInGA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2013, 01:48 PM   #9251
Marki_GSA
Studly Adventurer
 
Joined: Sep 2011
Location: Scotland
Oddometer: 504
Definitely don't take it as a bash on Europe. Many of the things going on here are dumb and legislating for the sake of it. A banana must have X curve on it or you can't call it a banana :

Doesn't sound like this particular legislation has destroyed the boxer though. Smoother, more powerful (if you need it) and a touch more flexible TBW aside (I assume they will fix this via a software update) its all good.
Marki_GSA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2013, 02:49 PM   #9252
Racegun
Single Track Mind!
 
Racegun's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2005
Location: 40ft above sea level
Oddometer: 2,547
Quote:
Originally Posted by VolInGA View Post
Main reason is emissions, and its not just the EU. U.S. regs are changing for 2015. You will see changes on motorcycles to ATVs, all in the name of lower emissions, and in some cases the U.S. standard will be tougher for manufacturers to meet than the EU spec. Truth of the matter is motorcycles emit more pollution per mile than today's cars, there are just fewer on the road in the U.S., so the net effect is less.

For the record, I'm not a greenie. Hate Al Gore and everything he stands for (and ashamed he is from my home state of TN). Completely disagree with Anorak.
Thank you VolInGA

No Mark, i was not bashing the EU. I was stating facts. I am not creating, just stating what is common knowledge to many. I did not want to go political. The reasons why BMW chose to do what they do w/ regard to building bikes is what was up for discussion. BTW, it is ok for people to not agree with the way governments screw things up.

As for A----k.... i leave your ugly comments alone on the "pedestal-of-all that is wrong with mankind" Stand there and glow with your dullard ways. Your name ( a----k) explains your view point and lack of substance.

As for what I say and know... I simply state what I know to be true. I have done everything I have talked about on these various threads/ forums. Why would I make it up? I was only doing my small part to help add to the collective knowledge base. I HAVE NOT bashed any one, or worse. If I am wrong that is on me. If I am right, that is on me as well. If you know more or have a better idea, then explain it. I am open minded to learn. When people have negative things say, and offer no information that can help, It is a given that they are lost and uninformed. They join the ranks of the many that are not initiated!
It is amazing to me how people will put down others and by inference call them a lier in so many words. With out question that comes from their own ignorance.

In the end all of this verbiage it like pissing into the face of a hurricane west wind. In no time at all, in the big scheme of things, all of these words will not matter....THAT IS UNLESS people decide to work together and proceed forward with a spirit of understanding, patience and good muster.
__________________
Cheers!
Dave
Racegun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2013, 04:39 PM   #9253
Dockstrada
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Dockstrada's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2011
Oddometer: 238
GPS handelbar wheel

Has anyone been able to work out what the GPS scrolling wheel dose on the handle bars other than jump between 3 different views? I found that you cant actually manipulate anything on the GPS, All its good for is to flick through 2 or 3 views and get in the way of the horn and indicator switch .
__________________
R1200GSA H2O
Dockstrada is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2013, 04:41 PM   #9254
2xrboys
Adventurer
 
Joined: Jun 2003
Location: NW MO
Oddometer: 64
That has been my experience also.
2xrboys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2013, 04:57 PM   #9255
Gary Stofer
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Apr 2002
Location: Sacramento, Ca
Oddometer: 105
Hold the scroll wheel longer and it zooms in or out.
Gary Stofer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 04:04 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014